Knowing what you know now...

[neato]

...If you were to start a new sign business tomorrow, what would be your plan of attack for marketing?

Let's say you already have a steady source of income to pay the bills and want to avoid being a 'FastSigns' type shop and instead focus on the higher end work and good design.

Is there still a market in small town America for quality sign work?

 

[SignManiac]

Is there still a market in small town America for quality sign work?

I have always believed that quality will stay in demand so long as you set the bar high.

 

[Pat Whatley]

I would have avoided opening a shop. I would have focused on higher end design and sales and subbed out all the actual work. I think by buying an very established shop I pigeonholed myself into doing the same thing they'd spent 60 years developing a reputation for. I've tried repeatedly to get out of that rut but its been near impossible.

I think the only way it will work is to change the name and the location and just get away from the past.

(and I changed my Neato parody avatar because I kept seeing your posts and confusing myself because I'm an idiot)

 

[Fred Weiss]

I wouldn't make signs except as a sideline

I would focus on high profit, unique items that had little or no competition in the local market and strive to do them so well that potential buyers would fall in love with them (and be willing to pay my price). I would be drawn into checking out equipment like the new Roland LEF-20 as well as 3D routing, laser cutting and imaging, etc.

Personally, I like small sizes at high margins in an age where most seem to like large sizes, high volumes of square footage and much lower margins. My Gerber Edge regularly produces prints that go for more than $25 a foot at retail and at less than 10% cost of materials. And I'd rather do 10 orders of small items for $100 per order than one bigger order of a larger item for $1,000 because I'll make $900 profit over materials my way with little or no competition and much less with the larger job with lots of competition.

A friend said to me a long time ago: There are two ways to be successful. Either do something uncommon or do something common uncommonly well.

 

[visual800]

If I had to start a sign co tommorow I cannot imagine it would make money very quickly. I would probably like to dealve more towards design and layouts than actual sticky signs. I would go for more quantity work where I subbed it all out. less is more IMO. I would not print or route in house, I would sub out and not have to deal with lots of machinery.

We have so many sources out there to produce our products for us it would almost be ignorant not to utilize them. I personally would hate to start a sign compnay right now from scratch. This economy is not going to permit any new bsuinesses for a while I am afraid

 

[visual800]

I would have avoided opening a shop. I would have focused on higher end design and sales and subbed out all the actual work. I think by buying an very established shop I pigeonholed myself into doing the same thing they'd spent 60 years developing a reputation for. I've tried repeatedly to get out of that rut but its been near impossible.

I think the only way it will work is to change the name and the location and just get away from the past.

(and I changed my Neato parody avatar because I kept seeing your posts and confusing myself because I'm an idiot)

dammit I thought this was your post!

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

At present I like where I'm at, since I hand paint only need so much work to keep busy & make a profit, and the challenges to find that last 39 years has been a adventure.

All I know is plans are great, dreams, & action to do them, all that changes in the future.

Today fresh out, with a plan, would push design & let others do cut, print to install

 

[neato]

Interesting comments. It seems that the overall thread is keep it simple and outsource. This is exactly what I had in mind. Focus on good design and quality outsourcing. There's just too many shops doing the opposite in my area.

Sincerely,

Pat

I mean Phillip....or do I?

 

[boxerbay]

...If you were to start a new sign business tomorrow, what would be your plan of attack for marketing?

Let's say you already have a steady source of income to pay the bills and want to avoid being a 'FastSigns' type shop and instead focus on the higher end work and good design.

Is there still a market in small town America for quality sign work?

It all depends on your market area. If you are in a small town maybe there is a limited market for higher end work.

@ Fred - I've been in small shops and large shops and I prefer dealing with one big guy and one big order vs 10 little guys and 10 little orders. Dealing with people and each ones issues takes up a lot more time than just loading more media and cranking it out. Just my preference.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

It all depends on your market area. If you are in a small town maybe there is a limited market for higher end work.

This is going to be the biggest thing right here. A number of small towns in this area would not be able to support high end work. So it really just depends on the area.

In this electronic age though, I wouldn't limit myself to just one geographic area especially if your focus is more to high end design and not necessarily it's fabrication (even then depending on what you are fabricating it might not be an issue).

 

[David Wright]

What is this steady source of income you talk about?

 

[Locals Find!]

I remember when I first arrived here Brokers and there business model were very taboo and frowned upon. Over the last 2 years though I have seen a big shift where more and more traditional shops are leaning towards the Broker model.

Just interesting to see the shift occur.

If I had to start my business all over again I wouldn't attempt to design anything myself. I would hire some good designers or contract them and keep the same business model with me out of the design phase. Then I would stick to managing and selling.

 

[rjssigns]

I would open a shop with an eye towards products with "ambiguous value". Items not priced by the square foot or anything remotely skewed towards commoditization. CNC products, custom fab etc...

It has proven out with my welding business. Folks don't flinch at my hourly rate and don't try to get a deal or discount. Not like that with signs.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I've always looked at it a different way. I don't think we focus too much on doing certain types of jobs, but instead focus on winning over certain types of clients. The goal is to attract good clients that will keep coming back for more work. Someone on this forum gave me a hard time for using the word "relationship" a while back when I was describing how we interact with our customers. But I think that building those relationships should be the focus. You can pay the bills and keep pretty darn busy if you can win over a handful of the right clients and work for them year round. However you can't be too proud and refuse to do the little jobs for customers like these. They may want you to do a huge job one week, or run off a hundred small decals the next day. Once you have those clients taken care of and you have a steady flow of work coming in the door, you can target the projects and type of work you want because you will have some breathing room to do so.

 

[Billct2]

I'd focus on dimensional signs, high end unique projects ala Dan S.

 

[Baz]

I remember when I first arrived here Brokers and there business model were very taboo and frowned upon.

Brokers .... They are still frowned upon. But i will say ... The "majority" of brokers suck.

 

[SignManiac]

I've always looked at it a different way. I don't think we focus too much on doing certain types of jobs, but instead focus on winning over certain types of clients. The goal is to attract good clients that will keep coming back for more work. Someone on this forum gave me a hard time for using the word "relationship" a while back when I was describing how we interact with our customers. But I think that building those relationships should be the focus. You can pay the bills and keep pretty darn busy if you can win over a handful of the right clients and work for them year round. However you can't be too proud and refuse to do the little jobs for customers like these. They may want you to do a huge job one week, or run off a hundred small decals the next day. Once you have those clients taken care of and you have a steady flow of work coming in the door, you can target the projects and type of work you want because you will have some breathing room to do so.

This is absolutely how I run my operation!

 

[Gino]

If I had the solid source of income as you speak of, I would question my reasons, knowing what I already know, for wanting to do signs in this day and age of so many hacks and turnkey systems out there, combined with all the slop from the internet.

The 'broker' thing is not a good idea, unless you have lots and lots of connections to do it right. Farming out an occasional project is nothing new and not considered 'brokering'. Using a vendor to do maybe all your banners is not 'brokering'. Not knowing what you're doing and depending on others to do just about everything for you...... is 'brokering'. A supplier is a supplier, whether you are buying banners already made or buying banners to print or put die-cut vinyl on. It's a source for a particular item.

 

[John Butto]

I was told long ago that to start a sign business "you have to go really small or really big, the in between guys have to work too hard and have a hard time making ends meet".
That being said, some of you have the idea of going small and subbing out work, and some are content to remain in that middle.
To be in a small town and starting off, go big. Get a smart economics person and have him write up a long term plan and go get the funding for equipment. You get great help because the small town people all know each other and will give you a hard days work. Hire outside designers, like some people on here do already, and good trusted managers and sales people. You will want the Super Bowl accounts, large corporations, businesses with box stores all over the world, Europe and Asian accounts.
Run it for 5 years, show good books and sell it off.

 

[Hicalibersigns]

I've always looked at it a different way. I don't think we focus too much on doing certain types of jobs, but instead focus on winning over certain types of clients. The goal is to attract good clients that will keep coming back for more work. Someone on this forum gave me a hard time for using the word "relationship" a while back when I was describing how we interact with our customers. But I think that building those relationships should be the focus. You can pay the bills and keep pretty darn busy if you can win over a handful of the right clients and work for them year round. However you can't be too proud and refuse to do the little jobs for customers like these. They may want you to do a huge job one week, or run off a hundred small decals the next day. Once you have those clients taken care of and you have a steady flow of work coming in the door, you can target the projects and type of work you want because you will have some breathing room to do so.

Disregarding commodity products, Joe has got it. You can find products to accomplish a particular task anywhere. What people buy most especially on a repeat basis is absolutely based on relationships. If you are doing it right over 85% of your business should come from about 20 clients.
Brilliant post and absolutely right.