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L25500 higher than previous head failure rates

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by Typestries, May 29, 2012.

  1. Typestries

    Typestries Very Active Member

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    Hmmmm has anyone noticed higher than previous head failure rates after inserting a newly purchased head (in particular heads with 2014 exp dates?)

    By failure I mean fade out on one or both colors of the heads, sputtering, or excessive jets out.

    We have not changed our environment nor our primary medias. No higher than previous head strikes.

    One has to wonder.... intentional on HP's part? We've been getting 1400-1900 warranty percent since day 1, and suddenly, on multiple new heads, on different channels, they're going right after 100%.

    These are all new heads, with 2014 dates. Never have we flown through heads like this. I'd be inclined to see if anyone else might be experiencing this? I was certainly happy to get the 1400% yield, but always wondered how HP was gonna make money that way. Maybe now I'm finding out indirectly that the were not. :(
     
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  2. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    I can tell you one thing. Our light Cyan, and Cyan Print heads go much faster than all the others..
     
  3. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Merchant Member

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    Cyan Black head on 850

    We lost a C-K head on our 850 in less than a weeks of operation due to a very minor head strike....cant figure that one out. Our other printers wouldve kept on smiling after a brief encounter with the 13oz NP Matte! This one killed it....otherwise, we've only put 12 liters thru a couple heads at this point...
     
  4. signdesigner1

    signdesigner1 Member

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    What firmware are you running? I know some machines(like mine) were having printhead overheating problems with the older firmware.
     
  5. Scotchbrite

    Scotchbrite New Member

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    We purchased the L26500 a few weeks ago, and we've blown through 4 heads I think; I've lost track now. So far HP has warranted them. Last time it happened they had me make some changes, primarily add a gutter to all of our prints and install the latest firmware.

    In the beginning we were having a head failure about every 5 days. After the above changes we went 2 weeks before having a head failure.

    We run pretty much everything at 10 passes. Dry and cure temps are at 131 F & 212 F (can't remember which is which, so those numbers may be in the wrong order).

    The HP tech also recommended upping to 12 passes and to turn on the extra printhead wiping, but I haven't done either one of those. Reason is we had the extra printhead wiping turned on by default the first week we had the machine and burned through a printhead cleaning kit within 5 days We had only gone through enough ink to require 1 black cartridge change but all other colors were still on the first cartridge.

    Seems to me turning the extra printhead wiping back on and going to 12 passes is going to run up my printing costs. This machine was supposed to be cheaper to run than our JV3, but based on my calculations it's going to be more expensive.

    I'm wondering if we need to make some adjustments like decreasing the cure or drying temp, whichever is set at 212 F. But I was looking at the recommended settings for printing 3M IJ180 on HP's site, and they say to run it at 230 F; even higher than we run it now.
     
  6. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    We've had it for a year almost, and been through maybe a whole set, +1 LC. And we run miles of ij180. We print at 8 pass, and it looks perfect. What rip are you using?
     
  7. Scotchbrite

    Scotchbrite New Member

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    I'm glad to hear you have those results. Makes me feel confident we can do the same once we get things dialed in.

    We run Onyx Poster Shop 10 for the RIP software.

    We were using a profile for HP air release material that the installer set us up with. It had us at 10 passes and the temps were 212/131.

    I thought more about the recommendations from the HP tech I mentioned in my previous post so I played around with the number of passes. I was surprised to find that the higher the number of passes the less ink was used and the jobs printed faster. That was opposite of what I expected.

    I switched to a 3M IJ180 profile that would let me run up to 16passes. The temps for that profile were at 230/131. However I manually dropped them down to 10° lower than the original HP profile we were using. So now I'm running at 202/131 and the prints are coming off just fine. I'm thinking running a lower heater temp will help reduce the head failures as the HP tech told me the error code on the failed heads was for overheating.
     
  8. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    the 3m profile is trash. I use the Avery 1005 ez rs. It's way more smooth, and i print with it on 8 pass with 0 issue...
     
  9. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    we lose c/lc heads non stop. starting to **** me off.
     
  10. Desert_Signs

    Desert_Signs Active Member

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    Wow, really? That does seem counter-intuitive. I run pretty much everything at 10 or 12 pass. I'll have to experiment with that.
     
  11. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    uhhh..im gonna pull ignorance on that one.

    common sense the more passes, the smaller the pass = slower. also darker = more ink.

    not to mention i have a few feet of material through my printers of experience :)
     
  12. Typestries

    Typestries Very Active Member

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    Well, there's no way 12 pass is the answer. If that's HP's answer, then find another machine that does what it should is my answer. We print beautifully in 8 pass as well. We even have 6 dialed in for some things. But, this loosing heads like crazy thing is becoming annoying. Like unattended printing ruining mass quantities of media annoying. Something other than the firmware, our media, our profiles, how we treat the machines, our settings, our room environment, or our line voltage has changed. So it's either these heads with 2014 dates or the ink. I for one have my distributors and HP on speed dial.

    once again, if we all got 1400% ++ on our heads for the life of our machines, would HP be making any $$$??

    edit: just for experimentation purposes for the greater good of the community, does anyone have any unopened heads in stock, with 2012 date codes, that I could buy, to further test my theory??

    This isn't the first time I've owned a printer where the manufacturer attempted to bamboozle the customers to tweak their margins. Could engineering really be as naive to think we wouldn't notice?
     
  13. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

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    More passes don't necessarily mean more ink.

    Now you can throw more ink at it with higher passes but that is minimal. Something like total ink 170 at 10 pass and you can get away with 180 at 16 pass only because of the longer drying time.

    Darker has nothing to do with number of passes laying down more ink. Darker might mean your getting better drying, avoiding the milky look. To much ink will not mean it is darker. Less is better with Latex, of course to a certain point. You can determine all this when you do your CM/setup for the pass you want to use based on the needs of your media in your specific environment.
     
  14. BadAss

    BadAss Active Member

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    same here....
     
  15. Scotchbrite

    Scotchbrite New Member

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    All of our prints come out looking great at any number of passes. The only reason I upped the number of passes is because of the recommendation of the HP tech.

    We've had the LC/C head throw the fail message a few times now. I swap the 2 heads and then it runs fine. The first time the LC/C head failed HP sent us a new one. The last 2 times I have just swapped them around and then the machine prints fine for a couple of weeks. After swapping the heads the test prints come out fine, so the head is functioning properly.
     
  16. Scotchbrite

    Scotchbrite New Member

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    Do you all have the extra printhead wiping enabled?
     
  17. gnemmas

    gnemmas Active Member

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    I was questioning how the printer determined that the printhead is bed, while the print is still looking fine?

    And the printer will not print UNTIL you change that printhead! Will HP tech please shed some light? Is the printer so smart or is it just a profit making scheme?

    Our experience with other printers are that it will keep on printing regardless of clogged or not firing nozzles until we see the bad prints and stop the print.
     
  18. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    It may be the new way for them to make money. Sounds like it is time for someone to hack the firmware.

    It sucks that so many are having issues. But I am thankful you post exactly what is happening with your latex rigs. I am going to stay away from the HP latex. Thinking about adding a Z6100 or Z6200 in 60" though.
     
  19. gnemmas

    gnemmas Active Member

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    When this printhead issue first came up, certain wrap shop argued for HP's strategy that their prinhead is cheap and easy to change by user, and we are supposed to figure in that cost as consumables.

    I am more interest to know HOW THE HECK the printer decides that certain printhead is dead and demand the change WHILE there is no evidence that the print quality is bad prior to that?

    I would like to be the one to decide that the print result is bad, and time for a new head.
     
  20. Digital_Insight

    Digital_Insight New Member

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    We are seeing the SAME problem with our L25500 lately

    Heads are blowing MUCH faster than before

    Lasting only about 1/2 as long as they were in the past.


    Something is up.

    BAD batch of heads floating around?

    BIGFISH any insights on this?

    Thx

    Rob

    :banghead:
     
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