Lam Separated From Vinyl, Again

[Bly]

What's interesting is this does not happen on our 3000 or 3500, nor does it do it on the 360. It is solely on the 560 and 570 machines. I wouldn't blame the ink per se as it is all using the same ink. It has something to do with the process.

Never seen it on our 360s at all.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

I would say since the 500 series prints twice as fast as the 300 series, (uses 2 Optimizer heads) it's probably got to do with the curing.

 

[nate]

I would say since the 500 series prints twice as fast as the 300 series, (uses 2 Optimizer heads) it's probably got to do with the curing.

That sounds like a reasonable deduction.

 

[DrunknMonk]

Im getting same issue with Oracle's 5600 reflective and there 290F laminate, on a latex 365 printer, the app tape is pulling the laminate off.

 

[Johnny Best]

Does the lam just not stick on the reflective or just where it is printed.

 

[dypinc]

Sounds like possibility too much optimizer usage. I have never seen it and on vinyl I use 8 to 12 optimizer setting.

What setting are others using?

 

[DrunknMonk]

Does the lam just not stick on the reflective or just where it is printed.

Its only where the ink is, no ink its perfect.

 

[DrunknMonk]

Sounds like possibility too much optimizer usage. I have never seen it and on vinyl I use 8 to 12 optimizer setting.

What setting are others using?

we use Night Bright Profile HP certified, because there is non for 5600, there settings are
Printer settings
Mode
12.0 passes CMYKcm 100.0 ink N/A
Load as
Self-Adhesive Vinyl
Input Tension
N/A N/m
Output Tension
N/A N/m
Vacuum
35.0 mmH2O
Heat Airflow
175.0 mmH2O
Curing Temperature
112.0 ºC
Ink Limit
100.0 %
Drying Power Leading
0.0 %
Drying Power Trailing
0.0 %
HP Latex Optimizer
14.0 %

 

[AF]

Obvious place to start is to do a sample with no optimizer and see if the adhesion issue is rectified.

I would slow down the print and run the heat at max to ensure everything is dry and baked before laminating.

 

[CL Visual]

I've had a similar issue with Avery 1105 and 1360 with my roland eco-sol. Only difference is that I knew I didn't give it the proper time to outgas and also had have saturation. Regardless of that, Avery still stood behind my and replaced the roll for me.

 

[Sign.ed]

I have had no issues with my Avery, inrun a 570, and print on Ora 5600, IJ180, Ora 3651.

I just ran 11,000 sqft of PLD, 1360 over IJ180.

I don't think it's the media, I usually spend an hour plus profiling myself. The downloadable profiles are all just starting points. 0 of my profiles are stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

I'm not sure if it's the Overlam not sticking to the Latex ink or what. HP retailer tells me it's probably the laminator not putting enough pressure. I've never had this issue though with my Roland eco-sol.
Has anyone else out there seen this problem with theirs?
HP L560, Latex ink, Avery 1105, and happened with both 1060 & 1360 gloss laminates.

This is a known issue. I just posted a thread on this same issue happening with Avery. Thread below
Lam Separated From Vinyl, Again

The problem lies in the scratch resistance fluid that rises to the top of the latex ink during curing that creates a barrier preventing full adhesion. It's across multiple vinyl brands so it seems to be the Latex Ink which is the issue. Reducing the number of passes helps...but on reflective, that will be a problem. Reflective needs more passes.
LOL

 

[AKwrapguy]

This is a known issue. I just posted a thread on this same issue happening with Avery. Thread below
Lam Separated From Vinyl, Again

The problem lies in the scratch resistance fluid that rises to the top of the latex ink during curing that creates a barrier preventing full adhesion. It's across multiple vinyl brands so it seems to be the Latex Ink which is the issue. Reducing the number of passes helps...but on reflective, that will be a problem. Reflective needs more passes.
LOL

So increase in passes which in turn increases in the dwell time for the heaters makes the problem worse?

What about lowering heat with number of passes, while this might take some trial and error should it not help?
For 3mIJ180 CV3 here are my setting. (not sure if it matters but I'm at sea level and shop temperature is usually around 60-70 degrees unknown humidity)
10 pass
212 dregrees
110% ink density
Optimizer 18
Vacuum 20
Airflow pressure 175
Tension 15

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

So increase in passes which in turn increases in the dwell time for the heaters makes the problem worse?

What about lowering heat with number of passes, while this might take some trial and error should it not help?
For 3mIJ180 CV3 here are my setting. (not sure if it matters but I'm at sea level and shop temperature is usually around 60-70 degrees unknown humidity)
10 pass
212 dregrees
110% ink density
Optimizer 18
Vacuum 20
Airflow pressure 175
Tension 15

Increase in passes lays down more ink, thus having more of the liquid that is causing the problem. I don't think the dwell time is the issue, but the ink levels may be.
If it were as simple as changing a heat setting, HP would send out new profiles or advise on different heat settings. . . I imagine. So I doubt it's as simple as that.

 

[Keith_F]

I've noticed This issue with Avery AND 3M after HP added the optimizer to their Latex inks (especially when its colder out). Never had a problem on the old HP Latex Machines until the Transition to the newer HP s with the optimizer. Its super frustrating. None of the companies seem to want to fix it enough to not point fingers and find a real solution... so here we are.

 

[Bly]

All the HP latex machines have had optimizer.
The newer faster ones just have 2x which may have something to do with this issue.

 

[AKwrapguy]

Increase in passes lays down more ink, thus having more of the liquid that is causing the problem. I don't think the dwell time is the issue, but the ink levels may be.
If it were as simple as changing a heat setting, HP would send out new profiles or advise on different heat settings. . . I imagine. So I doubt it's as simple as that.

I'm pretty sure(99.999%) on the HP latex 500 series the number of passes does not determine the amount of ink that gets layed down. The amount of ink is determined by the ink density.

I don't think that it's just the heat setting, but also the number of passes, ink density, optimizer levels and these differ with location and material. As far as the profile I use theirs and than tweek it to suit our needs.

 

[dypinc]

All the HP latex machines have had optimizer.
The newer faster ones just have 2x which may have something to do with this issue.

You better check your information. The first 250 and the second 260 did not have optimizer.

 

[dypinc]

So increase in passes which in turn increases in the dwell time for the heaters makes the problem worse?

What about lowering heat with number of passes, while this might take some trial and error should it not help?
For 3mIJ180 CV3 here are my setting. (not sure if it matters but I'm at sea level and shop temperature is usually around 60-70 degrees unknown humidity)
10 pass
212 dregrees
110% ink density
Optimizer 18
Vacuum 20
Airflow pressure 175
Tension 15

I don't think you need the optimizer at 18 with 3mIJ180 CV3 try 8 to 12 and see if it makes any difference.

 

[AKwrapguy]

I don't think you need the optimizer at 18 with 3mIJ180 CV3 try 8 to 12 and see if it makes any difference.

I haven't really noticed a difference with the higher optimizer, one reason we have it a little high is the lack of humidity up here. it's so dry that the ink can tend to migrate due to static. We ran a few test and found for us it's kind of a sweet spot for our temperature/environmental changes.