Laminating issues - not adhering to print vinyl

[upandup]

I am using a Summa to print on their clear vinyl (3m 7725 I believe) and using Arlon 3220 as an overlaminate. I bought the Big Squeegee to get me off the ground and I feel like I am following the directions clearly. My first go I had some bubbles, which I honestly expected, but I have a bigger concern. The areas that are bubble free don't seem to be completely adhered to the vinyl. Don't know how to describe it, but it has a "foggy" look where you can tell it has a laminate, vs the clear print showing through.

Could this be a mismatch in print vs overlaminate vinyl? Or is this normal and as it cures it adheres completely? Even if I use my normal squeegee it doesn't help much and it takes a ton of pressure.

Side question - I was using a small plastic table when I did the Big Squeegee. I'm wondering if that caused my bubble issue. Does it require a solid surface such as a wooden table? I feel like the plastic, although subtle, has some give to it.

Thanks!

 

[rjssigns]

For best results when using the Big Squeegee you need a solid, super smooth surface. With your current set-up you cannot apply enough pressure, evenly enough.

We do tons of smaller projects on a piece of plate glass. Works a treat.

 

[upandup]

Thanks for the input. I actually went and bought a used table with a laminate surface and it definitely seems to have helped. I am still having a major silvering (just found out that was the term for it) issue. I have watched the videos a ton of times and I am 99% sure I am doing everything correctly. It is nice and even, but it is silvering consistently across the laminate.

If I use my normal squeegee afterwards with a lot of pressure I can make it quite a bit better and then within a few hours it looks pretty good, but I feel like I shouldn't have to do so much squeegeeing afterwards. I'm wondering if it is the laminate / print vinyl combination that is causing my issue. Any input on some other laminates that I might try?

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Maybe try an optically clear laminate instead to see if it's any better?
Silvering would be more pronounced over a clear film compared to a white I'd imagine.

 

[upandup]

That's a good idea. I am going to try to get a few samples to try them out.

The more I research, the more I am starting to get a picture of this process. I found this post that gives a good description http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-80362.html.

The biggest issue I have is that two pieces of my application don't work well with what is "normal" based on the linked post. I have a very short turnaround time (sometimes 24 hours) and my lamination has to be perfect as my labels are always viewed within a couple feet and any flaw would be unacceptable. So to pop smaller bubbles wouldn't fly.

I'm thinking I may need to spend some money to have a fast and predictable lamination process. Any input on the best way to go if this is my requirements? Seems like heat assist lamination may be the best route, but I have no clue what brands are good/bad and I need to make sure I make a good choice.

 

[d fleming]

How long are you waiting after printing to laminate?

 

[upandup]

Pretty much laminating immediately. This was actually a question of mine. Does the Summa require any outgassing like solvent? It looks like the silvering is consistent even in non print area, so I wouldn't think it needs to, but better make sure.

 

[Sign Works]

Pretty much laminating immediately. This was actually a question of mine. Does the Summa require any outgassing like solvent? It looks like the silvering is consistent even in non print area, so I wouldn't think it needs to, but better make sure.

I do not believe thermal resin prints require any outgassing time before overlaminating. I've laminated a lot of Roland thermal resin prints over the years using clear vinyls Mactac and Arlon both cast and calendered as well as Oracal's lam films 290 & 210 and never encountered any adhesion issues. You might want to check with Summa to get their input on laminating their thermal resin prints. When hand laminating small thermal resin prints I use a piece of glass or piece of prefinished MDO, something rigid and smooth works well, the laminator works best though.

 

[Techman]

silvering will usually go away.. You can speed it up a little with a heat gun...

 

[d fleming]

Either an issue with laminating process or time. Try letting a test piece sit awhile then laminate. If it works there's your answer, if problem persists it is either your process or media issue. A hard perfectly flat surface is a must

 

[gnatt66]

take a look after 24 hours..i'll bet the "cloudy" areas are better.

 

[upandup]

take a look after 24 hours..i'll bet the "cloudy" areas are better.

They definitely are better. I have tried to let the print sit before laminating and it doesn't change the outcome. Yesterday I did another test and put a LOT of down pressure as I applied the laminate and it made the slivering 70% better. This morning it is almost gone. It just seems odd that it would require that much pressure and still isn't completely adhering. Based on the amount of work I have to do this isn't an ideal solution.

I can't help but think it has something to with my print vinyl. 3m 7725 is traditionally a cut vinyl, but apparently the clear works well with thermal transfer. I wouldn't be using this vinyl as it is expensive anyway, but having a transparent liner for my application is a must.

Does anyone know of any other clear print vinyl with clear liner?

 

[Techman]

silvering will usually go away.. You can speed it up a little with a heat gun..

As you see,, it is better after a while.. It is not a big deal..

 

[d fleming]

When you move from big squeegee to a laminator you will be so happy. Big squeegee is a great tool, but it isn't a replacement for a laminator. Did a color change to gas station roof over pumps before Christmas with a big squeegee. Worked awesome for that.

 

[upandup]

When you move from big squeegee to a laminator you will be so happy. Big squeegee is a great tool, but it isn't a replacement for a laminator. Did a color change to gas station roof over pumps before Christmas with a big squeegee. Worked awesome for that.

Well, I'm coming to the conclusion I may have to bite the bullet and get a laminator. May be worth the money so I don't lose my mind doing all this with the BS. Totally new to this, so any suggestions on the best value product on a tight budget?

 

[SightLine]

Best value on a tight budget.... If you want new then US Tech. That or go used. You can find older used laminators that still work good for very reasonable prices if you are patient and look around for a bit on eBay, etc. For example I have our old GBC Arctic Titan 165 that I need to sell and it still works good, its just a very basic cold laminator. I only want $1500 for it but..... its here in SC and I really do not want to deal with making a crate and trying to get it setup for freight shipping. That would make it not worth bothering with so local pickup is all I'm going to offer on it, well unless someone wanted to pay an extra $500 for the amount of time, materials, and effort I'd have to put into building a proper crate for it. You just need to find one that is somewhat local to you.