Laser cutting Kydex

[dhenss]

I have a 50 watt CO2 laser and looking at a project where I would need to cut Kydex. Looking around Kydex is not the best thing to cut due to the gasses that are generated.

I am looking for some suggestions for a similar material. Would like it to have a slightly textured surface with a matte color and for it to be impact resistant like Kydex.

Any thoughts and comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance

 

[CanuckSigns]

What about black P95 acrylic?

 

[dhenss]

I have looked at that. I know I will get a cleaner edge on the cut. However, it is too brittle for my application.

 

[JBurton]

CNC router? If you don't have access to one, you could cut a template, clamp it to your kydex sheet, and use a trim router to cut it out.
I gotta know, what's the application?

 

[dhenss]

CNC router? If you don't have access to one, you could cut a template, clamp it to your kydex sheet, and use a trim router to cut it out.
I gotta know, what's the application?

I like that idea as a fall back. Trying to keep the process on one machine. I am trying to design an ID holder for military style backpacks.

 

[VizualVoice]

what about something like row mark that's laser safe. Not sure how durable it is compared to kydex (which is a type of PVC, hence why it shouldn't be cut with a laser)

Rowmark Ultra-Mattes Black/White Engraving Plastic

<p>Non-glare, easy to read, and pleasing to the eye. Its durable matte finish is fingerprint resistant, making it ideal for difficult environments. UV stable and outdoor weatherable. Available in 1/16" and 1/8" thickness. The 1/8" is available in 2-ply or 3-ply.</p>

www.jpplus.com

 

[JBurton]

Yeah, but most rowmark stuff is super soft, like ABS.

 

[BigNate]

... if Kydex has the physical properties you need, why not just deal with the fumes? vent through a carbon filter, or if very limited, vent out a high stack so it disperses (please at least look at local ordinances on this... but it is likely permitted in small volume in it is regulated at all.)

 

[JBurton]

... if Kydex has the physical properties you need, why not just deal with the fumes? vent through a carbon filter, or if very limited, vent out a high stack so it disperses (please at least look at local ordinances on this... but it is likely permitted in small volume in it is regulated at all.)

I'm no expert on pvc fumes, but I thought they were bad for parts of the machine itself too...

 

[BigNate]

I'm no expert on pvc fumes, but I thought they were bad for parts of the machine itself too...

... what part of it? ALL the original 2-tone plastic for roto-engraving that was used for lasering WAS PVC (I am talking about 30 years ago, before the laser specific products started showing up.).... Actually you can still find videos on how to optimize cutting PVC so as not to leave the burn marks - the roto-engraving plastic had a thicker top layer than the laser-specific products, and it could be problematic - but easy to workaround. the free chlorine can cause some problems, but nothing a carbon filter cannot pull out. I guess it is possible if you are in a very humid area there may be more rust, but I would think the free radicals coming off of destructively burning almost anything would also have the same effect - the toxicity is an issue, but pretty easy to deal with.

 

[JBurton]

... what part of it? ALL the original 2-tone plastic for roto-engraving that was used for lasering WAS PVC (I am talking about 30 years ago, before the laser specific products started showing up.).... Actually you can still find videos on how to optimize cutting PVC so as not to leave the burn marks - the roto-engraving plastic had a thicker top layer than the laser-specific products, and it could be problematic - but easy to workaround. the free chlorine can cause some problems, but nothing a carbon filter cannot pull out. I guess it is possible if you are in a very humid area there may be more rust, but I would think the free radicals coming off of destructively burning almost anything would also have the same effect - the toxicity is an issue, but pretty easy to deal with.

Like I said, not an expert.

 

[BigNate]

Like I said, not an expert.

no worries, I took a few chem classes back in the day, and used lasers on PVC as well. I agree burning PCV in not optimal, but come on this is not rocket science, just printing!

 

[BigNate]

again, if the properties of Kydex are what is desired, why try to "re-invent the wheel"? the quick-and-dirty, get-the-job-done-and-get-paid action is to deal with the fumes in an appropriate way and then have a happy customer and a payday.... (if'n you can eat peanuts, a Payday as well.....)

 

[ikarasu]

You can't laser PVC, it's like the biggest "no no" in laser cutting.

When you laser PVC you produce hydrochloric acid - you may be able to vent it outside, but you won't be able to vent all of it. Ontop of that, it's a corrosive and it damages your laser. Will it die after cutting 1 or 2 pieces? Probably not... But it will destroy your $50,000 laser quickly... And breathing it in is very bad for you, not could give you cancer in 20 years bad for you.... But could send you to the hospital right away bad for you.


A laser vaporizes PVC and creates the acid / disperses it in the air , it's quite a bit different from burning or heating it up.

Im going by what I read, of course - I'm not dumb enough to question it and cut it to see if I pass out or destroy my laser. But the first thing they tell you when you buy a laser is to never cut vinyl or anything with PVC on it as it'll destroy the laser quickly, and it'll destroy it in an unrecoverable way.

 

[VizualVoice]

Yeah, but most rowmark stuff is super soft, like ABS.

Gotcha. Haven't ever had any in-hand personally.

 

[BigNate]

You can't laser PVC, it's like the biggest "no no" in laser cutting.

When you laser PVC you produce hydrochloric acid - you may be able to vent it outside, but you won't be able to vent all of it. Ontop of that, it's a corrosive and it damages your laser. Will it die after cutting 1 or 2 pieces? Probably not... But it will destroy your $50,000 laser quickly... And breathing it in is very bad for you, not could give you cancer in 20 years bad for you.... But could send you to the hospital right away bad for you.


A laser vaporizes PVC and creates the acid / disperses it in the air , it's quite a bit different from burning or heating it up.

Im going by what I read, of course - I'm not dumb enough to question it and cut it to see if I pass out or destroy my laser. But the first thing they tell you when you buy a laser is to never cut vinyl or anything with PVC on it as it'll destroy the laser quickly, and it'll destroy it in an unrecoverable way.

good to know from a practical standpoint - from the chemistry lab, we learned to deal with the fumes... and much worse reactions for fume production are safely handled daily, I realize this is not the most common approach from the industry standpoint. But why is there a difference? the fumes CAN be SAFELY handled, but you likely need a much higher level of chemistry education for the operators. I really do not see many chemistry PhD's in the sign industry.... (not that they do not exist....)

 

[JBurton]

good to know from a practical standpoint - from the chemistry lab, we learned to deal with the fumes... and much worse reactions for fume production are safely handled daily, I realize this is not the most common approach from the industry standpoint. But why is there a difference? the fumes CAN be SAFELY handled, but you likely need a much higher level of chemistry education for the operators. I really do not see many chemistry PhD's in the sign industry.... (not that they do not exist....)

I think, practically speaking, it would be more efficient to get the right tool for the job, in this case something like a router or die cutter, than it would be to use the wrong tool and have to make a bunch of concessions like adding ventilation, ppe, what have you. If OP is looking to make a great quantity, this shouldn't be an issue, but if he wants to make a one off and doesn't mind risking his existing equipment, I guess he could set it up and get the hell outta dodge for a day or two. I'm just glad routing doesn't have the same potential for reaction that lasering stuff does. I've thrown too many random things on the table to cut without a second thought aside from 'is this actually metal?'

 

[BigNate]

I think, practically speaking, it would be more efficient to get the right tool for the job, in this case something like a router or die cutter, than it would be to use the wrong tool and have to make a bunch of concessions like adding ventilation, ppe, what have you. If OP is looking to make a great quantity, this shouldn't be an issue, but if he wants to make a one off and doesn't mind risking his existing equipment, I guess he could set it up and get the hell outta dodge for a day or two. I'm just glad routing doesn't have the same potential for reaction that lasering stuff does. I've thrown too many random things on the table to cut without a second thought aside from 'is this actually metal?'

for a 1-off, and if you have the machine and the knowledge to deal with the fumes (yes the acidic fumes CAN be neutralized) the quickest and most cost-effective way is to just make the part.... If there is some compelling reason to look further, like a lack of knowledge of chemical handling, them by all means the longer and safer method is recommended.

 

[BigNate]

I think, practically speaking, it would be more efficient to get the right tool for the job, in this case something like a router or die cutter, than it would be to use the wrong tool and have to make a bunch of concessions like adding ventilation, ppe, what have you. If OP is looking to make a great quantity, this shouldn't be an issue, but if he wants to make a one off and doesn't mind risking his existing equipment, I guess he could set it up and get the hell outta dodge for a day or two. I'm just glad routing doesn't have the same potential for reaction that lasering stuff does. I've thrown too many random things on the table to cut without a second thought aside from 'is this actually metal?'

But you also bring up a good discussion point - what IS the RIGHT TOOL for the job? is it a tool which forces a material different than spec'd because the byproduct of the desired material will hurt the tool? Is the correct tool one that does the correct function, but needs an operator who can mitigate the negative effects of the byproducts from the machine? (the right answer will be different for everyone, but back to the original problem - Kydex has the properties needed, a laser is owned and will cut Kydex, but kydex produces bad fumes when cut by a laser.)

 

[ikarasu]

The correct tool for the job is one that makes you money.

I wouldn't flatbed print on warped material that caused headstrikes and extra wear and tear on my machine because the customer wanted me to.

Why cut something that corrodes your $40-75000 machine to do a one off? Even if it only takes 1% of your machines life away, that's still probably more than the job is worth.


There is no way to neutralize vaporized acid. You can vent it outside, but by the time it's cuttings it's already damaging your machine.

You can use a Toyota Camry to pull a 10 ft RV with a tow hook, sure it works... But the damage you do to your transmission isn't worth it, and you'll like do it up one hill then never be able to do it again. .


The right took for the job, is a tool that doesn't break when doing the job. There's normal wear and tear.... And then there's causing unecessary damage to get the job done.

It's like using your Olfa blade, chipping the. Rao out of it but managing to screw in a flathead screw....except it's a $40,000 okfa blade your destroying. Sure you can do it, but you'd have to be pretty dumb and not business smart to take the risk. I don't care if it's my best customer, I'd never do something that could potentially destroy my whole machine, even if it was a 5% chance.. .. it's just not worth it.