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Latex vs solvent print life?

Larry L

New Member
I have a eco solvent Mutoh and am thinking about getting an HP Latex printer. Seiko is saying the life of their solvent ink holding up to UV is 10x longer with yellow than using the HP Latex, is that true? They also say the HP Latex printers are only for short term outdoors....??? My salesman says Latex is the same. It's odd how little is mentioned when it come to the life of a print and that difference of the two.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...kYoIWvGGRA_LX1pAw&sig2=GTiEa_KGTNMdFSv6DdMavg
 

MikePro

New Member
I read that same document prior to my purchase of the HP26500... it is, to say the least, a bit biased in their claims.
they even go as far to add this in their fine-print:

attachment.php


they could have documented that their printed Snozzberries really DO taste like Snozzberries, and all would be fine and dandy.

long story short, to easier answer your question... Latex prints are certainly NOT only good for short-term outdoor graphics. I have exterior murals up for nearly two years now with no fade whatsoever. Most likely because I laminate everything worth selling to my clients, with laminates containing UVinhibitive properties.
I'm not going to bash solvent printers either, as I ran my mimaki jv3 for nearly 10 years without issue and exterior, laminated, prints that still hold brilliant color. ....though I WILL bash ecosolvents, due to their lack of versatility in media able to be printed on. But i'm sure you know that already :)

without breaking-down every argument posted in that document, I must also include that I do NOT spend $600+/month changing printheads on my latex. Sure I enjoyed using the same ~$1k printheads for almost 4 years in my solvent printer before all four of them started dropping like flies (which would have been $2k to replace for each, had I not learned how to do it myself instead of calling a tech everytime my printer was down) BUT I sure do love being able to swap out my $100 printhead on this latex when need-be...approx. every 4-6months, depending on usage or the occasional gnarly head-strikes that any printer operator has nightmares about when in a rush.

Bringing the HUGE argument for these printers, aside from instantly-dry ink----> downtime for the printer when a head fails: 5 minutes for HPlatex vs. 1hr'ish and a heck of a messy solvent-soaked monday, assuming you already know how to do it well yourself....or up to a week(or so), depending on how reliable/available your service tech is.
 

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AF

New Member
I wouldn't be surprised if the actual pigments are the same in both the HP ink and the Seiko ink.
 

Techman

New Member
I have some latex printed on some perf thats been up for about 3 years. Still looks good. They installed in the shade , no lam no uv. I am completely happy with the prints.
 

OldPaint

New Member
yea..............it the encad 736 vinyl jet........used the same setup with pre-heat and post heat to set the ink. it was only a 600 x 600 DPI.... is why it was so bad.....
 

Typestries

New Member
We were a test site for the vinyl jet, which, at the time was a revolutionary concept, especially after home brewing our own mild solvent printer out of a discarded roland. This in the year 2000. We had it printing acceptable quality, for the time and were printing trade show displays and POP stuff. Durability was horrible, and anything other than water would take the ink off. Try rushing to a boat show to clean the ink off of a 350k yacht after the detailing guy wiped the sign with something, streaking the ink onto the boat, then walked away.

Fast forward to today, and the latex has only pre and post heat in common with the vinyl jet and for that matter, so does every eco solvent printer as well. There's a ton more chemistry, jetting/head and machine maintenance technology going on with latex.

It's too bad encad never really pursued that. They made some amazing workhorses for their time, they just never worked the bugs out.
 
Be careful what you are looking at. If you are reading all the info for the L25500 you have to take into account that the newer models. L300 series have a different ink makeup and use a ink additive to add durability and print quality.
 

Larry L

New Member
I read that same document prior to my purchase of the HP26500... it is, to say the least, a bit biased in their claims.
they even go as far to add this in their fine-print:

attachment.php


they could have documented that their printed Snozzberries really DO taste like Snozzberries, and all would be fine and dandy.

long story short, to easier answer your question... Latex prints are certainly NOT only good for short-term outdoor graphics. I have exterior murals up for nearly two years now with no fade whatsoever. Most likely because I laminate everything worth selling to my clients, with laminates containing UVinhibitive properties.
I'm not going to bash solvent printers either, as I ran my mimaki jv3 for nearly 10 years without issue and exterior, laminated, prints that still hold brilliant color. ....though I WILL bash ecosolvents, due to their lack of versatility in media able to be printed on. But i'm sure you know that already :)

without breaking-down every argument posted in that document, I must also include that I do NOT spend $600+/month changing printheads on my latex. Sure I enjoyed using the same ~$1k printheads for almost 4 years in my solvent printer before all four of them started dropping like flies (which would have been $2k to replace for each, had I not learned how to do it myself instead of calling a tech everytime my printer was down) BUT I sure do love being able to swap out my $100 printhead on this latex when need-be...approx. every 4-6months, depending on usage or the occasional gnarly head-strikes that any printer operator has nightmares about when in a rush.

Bringing the HUGE argument for these printers, aside from instantly-dry ink----> downtime for the printer when a head fails: 5 minutes for HPlatex vs. 1hr'ish and a heck of a messy solvent-soaked monday, assuming you already know how to do it well yourself....or up to a week(or so), depending on how reliable/available your service tech is.

Thanks for the great info....User reviews are usually better than just sales pitches.
 

danno

New Member
I know I'm late on the conversation, but have you check with 3m, Avery or Oracal about the length of warranty offered on the machines you are looking at? 3M has a 7 year warranty on the Seiko M-seires with IJ180cv3-10 and 8518 laminate. That sounds like a strong horse to saddle.
 

Snydo

New Member
With UV protection both options are more than adequate for most any job. So your real decision is what printer would you rather operate and maintain.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
I know I'm late on the conversation, but have you check with 3m, Avery or Oracal about the length of warranty offered on the machines you are looking at? 3M has a 7 year warranty on the Seiko M-seires with IJ180cv3-10 and 8518 laminate. That sounds like a strong horse to saddle.

Good luck getting 3m to honour their warranty, or any of the vinyl manufacturers for that matter...
 

MMG

New Member
Great question, Larry L! You can find information on HP Latex print durability and longevity here: HP Latex inks and print durability. Click on the PDF icon in order to see the whole document. If you have any additional questions after visiting the HP Latex Knowledge Center, I’m happy to help. Thanks!”
 

johndstevens

New Member
HP Latex Durability

Larry - some good info in the posts and Marc has posted the link for the official HP Durability statement on the new 831 Latex inks. The fact is that HP Latex has been positioned as outdoor durable and a replacement for eco-solvent inks since the intro back in 2008, and the stated outdoor life has always been generally expressed as 3 year unlaminated, 5 year laminated, including the 3M MCS warranty on the 792 series and now the 831 series as announced last month at SGIA. As you do your homework - make sure that any competitive info is comparing to the new 300 series and 831 inks. Thanks.
 
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