• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

LEJ-640 FT UV Flatbed problems. Ending my silence

Andy D

Active Member
banding is always present regardless of color. The lines are perfectly consistent no matter where on the table I print and no matter where I start the print left to right. So if I start a print where you usually would and then start the same print in the middle of the bed/sheet, those vertical lines will be perfectly lined up which to me points to some sort of mechanical problem like a vibration which you can actually feel when you manually slide the head assembly left to right.

Wow, that sucks.. so you can feel a vibration when you manually slide the print heads and they hit that spot? Seems like there could be a defect in the rail....or like you said, the belt.
Seems like they would have rotated the belt to see if the banding followed the belt. The only time I have gotten vertical lines like that it's either the material, pinch wheels, or like I said, Air trapped in the lines.
It does sound like you got a lemon and they need to make it right... too bad because Roland has a great reputation. Please follow up and let us know what happens, good luck.
 

ImpactSignCo

New Member
It's been over a month since I gave up on this printer and stopped doing tests but with your feedback I think I might try some different ones and see if it makes any difference. Either way though...how is that James has the same printer purchased the same month as mine, but has none of these problems?

I really wish I had that answer for you. I'm not doing anything special here with ours, we aren't churning out phone cases or pens here either, but we do use it for multiple sheets of corrugated plastic, dibond, acrylic, and PVC without fail & running really standard Versaworks profiles with very little tweaking.
 

Brian27

New Member
Yup, it does suck.

Like I said before, my biggest beef is not with the printer itself. All of our products have led lighting and sometimes you just make something that has never ending problems. We also have a lot of machinery here that all have their own issues. I get problems. I get issues. What I don't get is the painful lack of customer service on Rolands part. You sold us a brand new $80,000 printer that is plagued with problems (some of which I haven't even mentioned) and your best solution after now four months is to unplug one of the lamps? Really?

Our CNC Router is made by Multicam which is by sheer coincidence the same company who makes the bed portion of the 640FT so I'm already well versed in it's inner workings. When it was installed, for weeks we were also plagued by problems which majorly screwed up our production and workflow. Much like this printer has. However, the difference was the local dealer was constantly working with Multicam and basically lived out here trying to figure out the problem. Never once did not take my calls to immediately troubleshoot new problems. Any time we had a problem and he wasn't available, we troubleshooted it with their support team and they'd overnight us parts every time. Ultimately they fixed the problem by replacing essentially every cable in the machine.

That's the kind of service I'd expect when buying an $80,000+ piece of equipment. Roland's however has fallen miles short. In my personal opinion, Roland should have dedicated a tech to be here figuring this problem out indefinitely vs. sending two guys out which we're for a total of 3 days before throwing in the towel. Either that or just replace the stupid thing which is what it has come to. Although I've yet to see these samples they said they were sending two weeks ago which is really not all that surprising at this point.
 

Andy D

Active Member
I'm probably going to repeat this post in the "Vendor Shoutout" forum, because it way overdue...
If you end up left in a bind by Roland and have to switch printers, I can not say enough good things about Agfa!

I have used multiple printers made by them, and they have all been a pleasure to print on.
Easy to load / unload, easy to keep maintained, & great print quality.
Also, the tech support is second to none! Anytime I have had an issue they have always had a tech on site, the next business day.

About 6 months ago, they started sending me part for my printer that I didn't order, when I called them up, they told me that they
have found an issue with my model printer and wanted to fix it before I started having problems.... this was no small fix either
they replaced all my ink hoses and the carrier thing that they're in.

My experience with other companies has been that they try and hide their known defects and blame you when the machine goes down,
and here Agfa not only owns up to it, but they fix it on their dime, before there is even a problem... Awesome!
 

El Barto

New Member
I have a plain ole LEJ640 (non-FT) and I can certainly relate to your problems. My techs do a great job of trying to keep us running, but it's nearly a full time effort for them. The LEJ series is just awful, and as bad as mine has been, I've been told by several knowledgeable people that I'm fortunate it's not an FT.

As for wasting inks, the new firmware updates seem to have made it worse.

What I can offer up for the white ink is that we ditched the clear in favor of a second white, and it's made a big difference in both speed and opacity. You still have to wrestle with it if you don't print white for a week, but when it does work it's a major improvement. It's also better for your mindset if you don't regularly throw empty clears in the dumpster despite having never actually used it before.

Oh, and wait til you see what they charge for the extended warranty, which is mandatory since they need constant attention.
 

greysquirrel

New Member
This might be the first time Ihave ever heard a complaint about Roland support or customer service...IMO they are one of the best in the industry.
Verticle banding...

a few things I would check/verify
does the printer run on 110 or 220...take the panel off your breaker box and while printing hold your meters on the breaker and see if you are getting fluctuations...irregular power can affect the lamps and heads...

Is the printer on a slab or concrete floor? Just want to make sure you are not on wood...that could cause vibration...

I would make sure belt tension is correct...that can cause vibration...


make sure that every screw connected to carriage and lamps ' anything moving is tight....a loose screw can cause vibration...

then profiles...I assuming that you are using "canned" profiles, supplied by Roland...have you linearized one yet? Too much ink will not cure properly..(LED LAMPS) and cause verticle banding...
 

boxerbay

New Member
have you checked the electricity going in to the machine to make sure there is no fluctuation in voltage? opps sorry i just noticed the previous poster mentioned it.
 

cristiangabi

New Member
Hi,
we have a Galaxy LED UV flatbed printer (2,5x1,25m) with Epson DX5 print heads . We have the exact problem when printing uniform colors, but the stripes are more horizontal and less vertical. The vendor changed the first unit with a similar one but with a new version of main board. The effect is less visible but still there. We are using an online UPS (with voltage regulator). We are trying to change the ink to check for any improvements.
Did you find a solution for your printer?
Thank you.
 

gabagoo

New Member
I think you did the right thing posting an issue like this on this Forum which will be seen by thousands of sign and print people.

If Roland knows there is a problem and is diddling around while you pay interest on a $80,000 loan or lease... then for heavens sake swap out the machine with a new one....Eat the costs, which would be a lot less than the revenue they won't be getting due to so many reading about this.
Thank goodness for Forums

Good luck with your issue
 

Brian27

New Member
Sorry for the lack of update on this. I had been waiting for the situation to finally be resolved and didn't want to shoot myself in the foot during the ordeal by continuing to post here.

While it was a long an arduous process, my dealer came to an agreement with Roland to return the printer completely and it was picked up last week.

In the end, there wasn't anything actually wrong with it. At least as far as the vertical banding goes. Their's did the same thing mine did. Why they didn't just tell me that to begin 5-6 months ago is beyond me. I could get much more in depth with the whole ordeal but at this point I'm just over the whole thing and want to forget the last 6 months even happened. All I can tell you is that Roland has some serious work to do on this printer and I feel like they're using their customers as guinea pigs to fund their R&D.

We're replacing it with an Oce 365 GT based upon the recommendations of people here and it should be here in a few weeks. It's a significantly larger investment but I'm hoping it pays itself off in lack of frustration.

Now that this issue is behind me I don't check the forums much anymore. If you have any questions about this be sure to reply with a quote or PM me so I get an email notification.
 

maravac

New Member
Hi there. We have the same problem with the vertical banding and I know atleast two more owners of the LEJ-640 here in my city, who struggle with the vertical stripes aswell. It's most visible on the solid dark color areas, especially rich black is the worst... we printed on the rigid PVC foamboard - it's visible there, then we printed on the alu-composite rigid boards and it's visible even more!

I tried to lower the print-head as much as I can (minimum space between the surface and the print-head) and it looks slightly better, but it's still there and visible. And of course, sometimes it's not possible to get the print-head to the minimal (optimal) height because the boards are never, never absolutery flat and straight.

It looks a little bit like the metamerism stripes (colors are perfectly aligned and printed, but undel the certain light angle you can see the vertical banding), but I am not able to solve the problem. Does anybody here solution for this??? This is a really BIG PROBLEM and roland should seriously work on it.

attachment.php


Edited: One more thing - I tried aswell to decrease the speed of the print-head (scan-speed). Then the stripes are smaller/thinner and closer to each other, but they are still there.
I'm thinkink also about the static. Does anybody here use some equipment or tools (ionic-bar, antistatic string etc.) to discharge the static charge of the media before it boes to the machine? Does it help with this problem or not?
 

Attachments

  • LEJ-640_vertical-banding.jpg
    LEJ-640_vertical-banding.jpg
    65.1 KB · Views: 760

ams

New Member
Banding usually happens in high speed prints and low DPI settings. Many people today are buying printers that are the fastest. I saw one at a show, they said you can print a 4' X 8' in as little as 10 minutes! Sounds like a dream, except it had really bad banding all over it. Don't go with speed, go with quality.

If you are setting yours to print 360 DPI then it will band. Stick with 720 and up.
 

maravac

New Member
Banding usually happens in high speed prints and low DPI settings. Many people today are buying printers that are the fastest. I saw one at a show, they said you can print a 4' X 8' in as little as 10 minutes! Sounds like a dream, except it had really bad banding all over it. Don't go with speed, go with quality.

If you are setting yours to print 360 DPI then it will band. Stick with 720 and up.

No, I speak about the VERTICAL banding, not the horizontal, which is of course typical for the hi-speed and lo-res printing. I use the 720x720 dpi, 720x1080 and 720x1440 dpi so really slow speeds, and vertical banding is always there - most visible in bark solid color areas and almost invisible in light non-homogenic areas or photos.
 

Brian27

New Member
I have some bad news for you. It can't be fixed.
I tried for 6 months straight. 4 techs from my dealer and 2 techs from Roland flew out and could not figure it out. The reason they couldn't figure it out is because it's a flaw with the printer itself. They were all set to replace my FT with their demo, but a light clicked in their heads and they tried to print black on their own demo and it produced identical results. Only then did they agree to return it outright.

After hundreds of hours of troubleshooting I've found a few less than ideal work arounds to help mitigate the vertical banding.

1. Print in White + CMYK mode but with no white layer. This mode is the only mode that will allow a head speed of 1000 mm/s. That combined with the obscene amount of passes, it essentially eliminates the banding. Unfortunately this mode will triple or quadruple your print times. In our case, we always overprint 2x or 3x so you can see why this isn't a viable long term option. A 4x8 panel with 2x overprint takes roughly 5 hours to print in this mode.

2. Only print your blacks with K. Spot color BK21a. This usually works because the banding is caused by the mixing of colors which haven't been properly calibrated for the lamps on the 640 so it produces gloss vertical banding. Using only the K channel reduces the effect considerably. However, because this printer also has issues with starvation, you may find (like we did) that it isn't capable of printing black with just K for long before you start getting really bad horizontal streaks through your prints.

3. Unplug the right (trailing) UV lamp. This is a solution I tried around month two. While it does help with the vertical banding, it makes the print very gloss from not being cured correctly and hurt the adhesion to plastic so I didn't find this viable. Amazingly months later, Roland finally came up with a "solution" and sent me instructions. Low and behold it was merely unplugging the right lamp, essentially rigging the machine. Another reason this isn't viable, which they apparently didn't take into consideration when creating this solution, is that it requires you to be in service mode since unplugging the lamp will produce an error upon startup and while in service mode your printer will never turn off (sleep) and wont run auto cleaning cycles. Roland brilliance in action.
Note: I don't recommend doing this unless you know the process. You can PM me and I can send you the instructions if you want.

4. Print in high speed. It's backwards thinking but printing in this mode will actually produce other more subtle print defects like horizontal banding that will help mask the vertical banding. This is how we printed just about all our solid colors.

5. Use high head height. It may seem counter intuitive but the increase height masks the banding. Unfortunately this will also make the detail in your prints look like hammered dog **** but for large solid colors it does help.

6. Get a new printer. You might think I'm joking but really I'm not. I spent hundreds of hours and countless late nights/weekends dealing with that god forsaken machine and sent dozens and dozens of emails to Roland throughout the process and got exactly zero help in return short of techs coming out to patronize me as if I somehow was imagining all the problems I had. Thankfully my dealer was on my side and was able to get it returned.
The Oce we replaced it with has been here for two weeks and I can honestly say it's night and day. It was significantly more expensive but I'm extremely happy with it so far.

7. Don't print solid colors. lol.

Things that will not help.
-It's not static - I cannot stress this enough. I tried everything from static bars, dryer cloth, humidity control, static cleaners....nothing. Don't let anyone feed you this crock of BS.:banghead:
-Higher quality - As you've probably already figured out, increasing to high or even artistic will not help you. The higher the quality can actually make it worse because there are less perfections to mask the banding.
-Uni directional - The problem occurs identically in both modes.
-Roll Vs. Rigid - Both will produce banding. One just uses a higher head height than the other.
-Nothing in the service menu - You might be tempted to tool around in there to see if there is anything that will be of help. Don't waste your time. There is nothing to address the issue there.
-Editing profiles - I spent a lot of time tinkering with different profile adjustments. Reducing certain colors, increasing others. None of them work.
-Changing Versaworks settings - All the quality, profile, halftone, color management don't solve the problem. Nor will different file formats or Illustrator settings. I tried every combination of every settings. All with the same result.
-Adjusting the belt tension - This is Roland's go to for this problem. I **** you not we had 4 techs out here to "adjust" the belt tension because "it worked for somewhere else." No, it doesn't work and it took them 2 -months of tinkering with the belt to figure that out.

Hope that helps. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
 

CMassPrinting

New Member
According to our tech, that vertical banding is static related. It's when too much of the ink gets caught on the pinch rollers... what you're seeing is the trail the rollers leave behind passing through the print.

What we do, to solve it in the colder months is do a pre wash on all our PVC material.
We just use 90% Rubbing Alcohol.
 

maravac

New Member
According to our tech, that vertical banding is static related. It's when too much of the ink gets caught on the pinch rollers... what you're seeing is the trail the rollers leave behind passing through the print.

What we do, to solve it in the colder months is do a pre wash on all our PVC material.
We just use 90% Rubbing Alcohol.

Sorry, but what you said about the pinch rollers is a big nonsense! You probably never saw the LEJ-640 machine. First: pinch rollers are not touching the printed inks, they go AFTER the printed inks (they are positioned behind the printhead, not before). Second: during my tests I tried different print modes, resolutions, scan-speeds, feed speeds. Sometimes the distance between vertical stripes (banding) is smaller and the stripes are more thin, in other print modes they are wider and the distance is bigger. So nothing with the pinch rollers.

We ALWAYS wash the boards with the isopropylalcohol (IPA) and even in summer months and higher temps the vertical banding is there. I believe, it's the problem of the construction itself.
 

ams

New Member
This has probably been checked and is a stupid question, but hey some of the more simple solutions have fixed major issues.
Have you checked to make sure there are no hairs stuck to the print heads or dampers/wiper area?
 
Top