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Let down by Roland

Colin

New Member
I’ve had my Roland SP540i for over 2 years now (purchased new). I am not a high-production shop (1-man show), and am fastidious in taking care of…….everything. I have only used Roland ink, and never let more than 2-3 days go by without printing 4 good-sized rectangles, each filled with C,M,Y,K to keep the heads happy.

Near the end of my first year (within the warranty period), I started to experience some ultra-fine banding. Not the sort of banding which is fixed by feed calibration, but a sort of fine banding especially pronounced in K-only prints (like if using the RVW BK blacks/greys). The telling part of this was that the fine banding was and is present in the feed calibration test print, and it prevents one from seeing the critical “space and overlap” in that particular test print.

At the time, I brought this to the attention of my dealer who I bought the machine from. When he was in my area next, he stopped by and had a look. He attempted a few things, like drawing ink through the head, soaking the head, etc, but nothing changed. When I suggested that a K head replacement might be in order, he said something to the effect that it wouldn’t be warranteed because such a problem could only be caused by a head-strike. When I explained that I had not had a head-strike, he seemed to defend his position more, saying that if we changed the head and sent the old one back, they would likely find evidence of a head strike and I would then have to pay full-pop for the head (and labor).

I found this to be perplexing. It seemed like an easy out for both Roland and the dealer to place the fault on the owner no matter what. More time went by and I've worked around the problem by using RGB blacks & greys, or using the painfully slow “high-quality” setting. I continued to occasionally ask if he had inquired to Roland about this, but he just stalled & stalled.

Several weeks ago I inquired directly to Roland, and emailed them the CoPeck report as they requested. It took a couple of weeks and more requests for a response before they finally got back to me. In spite of the obvious fact that my original dealer dropped the ball on this (within the warranty period), they told me that they cannot warranty the head because the CoPeck report showed 6 Motor/Scan-Error incidents, which means that the head was severely stopped by an obstruction. This had never occurred. (BTW, my new, competent service tech who was here yesterday said that the machine’s info recorded 4 not 6). I'm told that this doesn't necessarily mean a "crash".

We know that the K heads are replaced at a far higher rate than the others due to the higher carbon content in the black ink. Also, if Roland claims that a head strike must have caused this, then we would also see that same damaged inflicted upon the Magenta too, as it is the twin of the K. No?

I am no longer doing business with the dealer who I purchased the machine from. He is a good “salesman”, but IMO, doesn’t possess the depth of knowledge as a Tech, and provides poor “service”. While the Roland rep offered a 20% discount on a new head, I’m still looking at over $1000.00 by the time it’s installed. I feel let down by my original dealer and by Roland in all of this.

What do you think?
 

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Gino

Premium Subscriber
We've had dealings go both good and bad with Roland, mostly good over the years.

I believe you are at your reps mercy. Luckily for me, I always had a good rep. However, he died a few years ago ad I've been tossed all over the place and up until recently, I had hacks in my opinion.

Sometimes, even though it hurts the pocketbook if not prepared, you would cut your loses greatly if you took the bull by the horns and had it fixed and let principles fly out the window. I'd rather have something working correctly, then standing your ground waiting for someone to fess up something, they don't intend to fess up to.


This is one of the reasons one puts an extra cost into one's pricings..... so you can afford to do this stuff on your own and not be dependent on others. Remember.... only you will look out for number one, no one else will.
 

Colin

New Member
Thanks for the reply Gino. What do you think about some of the specific technical points I made, and my general position & feeling - am I justified?
 

anothersign

New Member
Roland tech here

By looking at your print...i dont believe a head strike occured but a good loupe will show it for sure...with a head strike you have have many jets not firing..i have connections at roland corp. send me a pm i will give you my cell number ad see if i can pull some strings for you
 

Colin

New Member
BTW, here the other test print, showing the permanently deflected nozzles.
 

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Gino

Premium Subscriber
What is a "loupe"?

A loupe is a good way to get closeups of the way the dots go down. We have them with lights in them and Jeremy has one that's like a microscope with a light coming in on a angle. It really helps to see fine detail and can determine many problems missed by the naked eye.
 

Colin

New Member
Can that be used while the heads are still installed, or do they need to be out? My new tech looked at the heads with a flashlight and said that it all looked good.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
It's for looking at results in your printer's printing capabilities, not for looking at anything other than directly on the surface. You will be able to see how the droplets go down and how the ripping even takes place, well the end results.
 

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Colin

New Member
It's for looking at results in your printer's printing capabilities, not for looking at anything other than directly on the surface. You will be able to see how the droplets go down and how the ripping even takes place, well the end results.

Ahh, I see. Well, without using one of those, this shot shows how the black is going down. This was a K-only print which was paused part-way through, and shows a weird swirly pattern, as opposed to nice, fine dots.
 

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Gino

Premium Subscriber
Gotta ask you this question................

Do you still feel you've been let down by Roland or your ex-distributor/vendor ??

Hafta admit, Roland themselves was probably brought into the game a little too late to be of much good, unless this one Merchant Member posting here...... can get you a deal.

It's happened before. I had it happen to me recently where a deal went south... and through s101, I was able to get total satisfaction and back to good.
 

Colin

New Member
Do you still feel you've been let down by Roland or your ex-distributor/vendor ??

Yes, of course.


Hafta admit, Roland themselves were probably brought into the game a little too late to be of much good.

Perhaps, but the (documented) fact is, I brought it to the attention of one of their representatives within the warranty period. Sadly, we see this pell-mell flight from responsibility everywhere now-a-days. It would be nice if Roland would do the right thing, and not act like some insurance company looking for everything & anything as an excuse for not standing behind their product.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Just wondered.

I see it as your ex-distributor's fault. He's the one who let you down and didn't do anything about it.

I had a somewhat similar problem [different distributor and different manufacturer] and wasn't reimbursed by either. Mine was within the warranty and in fact spelled out in the quote and letterhead that the very problem would be taken care of by my distributor. Like you, I got the shaft. They denied any part in this and when I showed them in writing, I was told I changed the paperwork. I was actually called a liar. I called the manufacturer and they said, sorry, but that was with your distributor, not us. We'll try to help, but they didn't help very much. Gave me like 15% off on the item we needed.

It's the dealing with shadey people that I don't like. They misrepresent themselves and when it's time to call them on it, they just run and hide and it's just not worth the hassle and they count on you just going away.

If you feel you were totally wronged, I would then write a letter of demand and make a complete paper trail of every correspondence you had with your dealer from phone calls to letters and/or e-mails and including verbals, with the manufacturer and how things turned out and that you now feel they owe you a new head along with the installation, plus for lost time, lost material, lost wages and whatever else you can think of that was lost. Tell them to mull this over and to govern themselves accordingly as you will be taking action within 10 days of their receiving this letter and send it 'return receipt'.
 

Colin

New Member
I see it as your ex-distributor's fault. He's the one who let you down and didn't do anything about it.

Yup, me too. It's interesting how Roland can conveniently distance themselves from the dealer when it suites them.


I had a somewhat similar problem [different distributor and different manufacturer] and wasn't reimbursed by either. Mine was within the warranty and in fact spelled out in the quote and letterhead that the very problem would be taken care of by my distributor. Like you, I got the shaft. They denied any part in this and when I showed them in writing...

If you feel you were totally wronged, I would then write a letter of demand and make a complete paper trail of every correspondence you had with your dealer from phone calls to letters and/or e-mails and including verbals, with the manufacturer and how things turned out and that you now feel they owe you a new head along with the installation, plus for lost time, lost material, lost wages and whatever else you can think of that was lost. Tell them to mull this over and to govern themselves accordingly as you will be taking action within 10 days of their receiving this letter and send it 'return receipt'.

Yes, I emailed Roland and supplied links to this forum where I originally posted the problem, and still have the emails between the dealer & I. I just haven't done the litigious thing you've outlined at the end there, and I don't think I (or anyone) should have to. I had a conversation with the Roland rep who finally called yesterday, but in the robotic fashion of defending a "policy" (manufactured by themselves of course), they just stand behind the Scan/Error report and say: "Nope, you've obviously abused the machine". Given that one does not need a head-strike to trigger a Scan Error, this is an unfair and unreasonable position to take.

If this occurred outside of warranty, or if I had abused the head in any way, I would accept full responsibility, but in this particular circumstance, would it really cause Roland any grief to do the right thing and supply a head? I'd even be happy to pay for the install if it's more than what I (a very mechanically able person) could be walked through on the phone.



BTW: I've also heard from another local sign shop who had the same experience of poor service from our old dealer.
 

Bly

New Member
Printing K only will give you poor results.
Heads don't last forever, and as you mentioned the black ink is harder on heads so the slightest imperfection will show up when doing this.

Decent profiling will enable neutral 4 colour greys so you don't have to try and print them with only one channel.

Anyway sorry you're having warranty problems.
What is the Roland warranty on heads?

We've had three Rolands and love them for what they are.
I think from memory we may have had a couple of heads replaced under warranty.

I do know using Bordeaux ink the heads seem to be lasting longer than OEM.
 
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