Let me tell you about Chuck

[Janey]

I started a new thread as I think the last one went the wrong direction. Sorry, I don’t have time to sit at the computer and answer the responses as they come to clear up any misunderstanding.

To keep this simple I will start with the one item that I think is HUGE.

Recently, I had someone in my shop that has a MultiCam and I on a whim I asked, as I didn’t and don't have much experience with CNC, “is the machine suppose to jerk when it changes direction?” I have had the machine for a month at this point. It did this since it was installed and set up by the 25 year old technician. And the answer was “well, no it is not right….” There was more but I will stop there.

Well, isn’t this nice to hear. I called a business that services CNC’s to confirm this answer. And it is true. He happens to have a tech that can fix the issue but will be a few weeks for him to come down and analyze what is going on. And the cost well, $100 hour plus travel and expenses. So there is $400 just for the tech to get here and get back…plus the time he spends on the machine. Another $1000-$2000 to spend on a brand new machine.

Yippee…Thanks Chicago dealership of MultiCam for your wonderful customer and tech support. Thank you for leaving me with a half installed machine. I guess I will put off hiring another employee for a month or two so that I can afford to spend more money on the brand new router you installed for me.

Call me a troll or whatever you want to call me. I would like to think I am being helpful to any business or individual that is considering a purchase of a CNC router. Like I said before it is NOT the machine or the software I have issues with…it is the un-organized orgainzation that set Chuck up. Oh yeah…that is his nickname, Chuck. Little jerky at times but it isn't his fault and he just keeps going and going and going. I love you man.

Happy 4th to everyone. Peace, Janey

 

[signage]

Janey why don't you contact MultiCam directly and tell them the issues and have them send someone to verify and repair them!

 

[Janey]

Oh, I have, only they don't return phone calls or emails. I am really not trying to upset anyone here. I am only trying to provide knowledge.

 

[Mainframe]

Thanks for the heads up, i have a router on my wish list, I just crossed those guys off. Good luck with this mess & keep us posted.

 

[econolinesigns]

We have had a AXYZ Router for about 10 years. It has been the most reliable piece of equipment we have had. Their support is great, we can still call them and they help us to this day with no service contract. Anything that has gone wrong over the years, they send us the parts and tell us how to fix it.

 

[Janey]

let me continue...I went to the show in vegas with the sole intent of buying a CNC. I spoke with a lot of manufactures.

MultiCam was the closest to me and I felt that I would get the best support not to mention I am very hung up on Made in the USA and keeping jobs in America.

I am frustrated as I hear of so many sign shops pickling their machines and laying people off. The thought they are going to suck me dry fixing something that should not be broke is insane.

Before purchasing a CNC you really need to figure if you can trust the manufacture and or dealer/distributor. The machine is only as good as the service and in this case the installation. This is a tough economy and I think if they want your financial statement to get financing you should see theirs to trust they have money to stay in business.

I paid another $1000 for the oil mister. The resivior cap leaks. I was told by them that there is nothing they can do. Huh?? This is normal? it was installed less then a month ago. Your not going to fix this? What am I missing?

Joe, Roberta (my girlfriend), Ken (pres. of Multicam) I am not going away. I don't give donations of this size for equipment. This machine needs to be fixed. I need to be able to trust your people. There was software downgrade done by your knowledgable tech because of his inexperience and I want the current version back.

Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters. peace out, Janey

 

[Pat Whatley]

Come on man, it's time to nut up and start making calls. What is this waiting for a return phone call baloney? Seriously, you seem like you've been patient with them up to this point and it hasn't worked so it's time to sack up and be their biggest pain in the ass. Call all day long. Automatic redialers are cheap. Annoy the crap out of some poor secretary by making her take messages every half hour. I'm sure you've got a salespersons cell phone number....call that guy ALL DAMN DAY. Everytime it jerks, call him. Oil mister leaks? Call him. What about the 25 year old tech? Call that genius just to tell him you're pissed at him. Sure, it will be a pain in the ass for you...share that misery. Just make sure that every single time you call you call every number you've got for them. It will work. It always works. Google around for more contact info. Do they sell through distributors? Start calling them and bitching. Keep posting updates here of how many calls you've had to make. $1000 for a tech? Spend $250 on a temp and have them sit there and call all day for a week.

it'll be beautiful!

 

[Janey]

Come on man, it's time to nut up and start making calls. What is this waiting for a return phone call baloney? Seriously, you seem like you've been patient with them up to this point and it hasn't worked so it's time to sack up and be their biggest pain in the ass. Call all day long. Automatic redialers are cheap. Annoy the crap out of some poor secretary by making her take messages every half hour. I'm sure you've got a salespersons cell phone number....call that guy ALL DAMN DAY. Everytime it jerks, call him. Oil mister leaks? Call him. What about the 25 year old tech? Call that genius just to tell him you're pissed at him. Sure, it will be a pain in the ass for you...share that misery. Just make sure that every single time you call you call every number you've got for them. It will work. It always works. Google around for more contact info. Do they sell through distributors? Start calling them and bitching. Keep posting updates here of how many calls you've had to make. $1000 for a tech? Spend $250 on a temp and have them sit there and call all day for a week.

it'll be beautiful!

Pat what are you doing today? Can I hire you to make calls? I only get voice mail. And I am sure they just delete it. The gal that handles calls when she answers is a bit scary.

Trust me I am a pain in their backend. I got the founders name and have left messages for him in Texas.

If anyone wants to call them for me the number is 847-648-1056 and 1# gets you the salesman name Joe 2# or 3# are the lines that Roberta takes.

I don't have any other numbers as the techs when they call from their cell phones it always says private number and when I asked for their number they ignore me.

 

[Janey]

Other things to consider when you buy your first CNC. I thought because I bought the automatic tool changer that there would be the 8 toolholders I needed with the machine. As I knew they would be pricey and would have been nice to add them to the financing.

But alas the machine is installed and there is one toolholder. So I call to get pricing on the other 7 and MultiCam price is $325 each for a total of $2250. Oy. I also got pricing from them on tooling and they resell Onsrud.

Well, I make a call to another place that sells tooling MultiCam prices are 30-40% higher on the Onsrud bits and this company got me toolholders at $185 each. That was nice savings.

Oh...I did add a $1000 tool allowance when I financed the machine but obviously didn't get the tooling from MultiCam because of their prices. So I asked for them to refund my $1000. They tell me they won't refund the money.

If your a first time buyer like me you need to know these things before so you can budget correctly. Hope this helps someone...this is really where I want this thread to go...I would like to tell you what I have learned along the way and what needs to be considered.

Oh...and reference tooling talk to the manufacture of the tools your going to use. My case it was Onsrud the gal that handles this territory came to my shop and was a wealth of knowledge. They don't sell directly you have to go through one of their distributors...but she was so cool and very happy to explain and help with applications.

 

[mark in tx]

Sounds like you need a lawyer at this point. I know that will cost you even more, but what it all sounds like to me is that you need to think about returning this machine and buying a different one.

 

[Typestries]

Sounds crazy, but have you adjusted the ACCELERATION in the software you are using? That machine is jerking when moving because something somewhere is telling it to do that. I can make my Sabre do the same thing if I turn the acceleration all the way up. just a thought that might help. I have a friend with 2 multicams and hardly any issue. I think the setup tech may have missed something. Sorry if you covered this already, just trying to help!

 

[Janey]

I thought about the lawyer thing but when you really think about how much that would cost in the end I may be better off with paying to get everything the way I want it on this thing. Although, the really cool thought that comes through my mind is renting a crane and moving the 5000 pound machine and well...forget it...I won't go there.

Anyways, Reference the acceleration don't know what or where to find that but I will look. When I say jerking though...sorry for my jargon. It is when the router changes direction...it is moving so fast it is almost like a little whiplash. And the table jiggles around a bit.

When I talked with the other place that will probably have to service my machine he pretty much knew what I was talking about...as I don't have all the CNC lingo down yet. But he has seen it before and said it could be in the servos or something? I don't know...thanks for your input...

 

[3dsignco]

First off Here is where you can buy Onsrud Bits Direct.

https://www.onsrud.com/home

Ok now what's happening with your router. You need to go into your setup in you controller software NOT enroute, and find a setting for ramping (Ramp Speed). What ramping does, Its slows down the router when its going to change directions then speeds back up once the drastic change has been made.

Also if your getting that much vibration you may look at your Jog speeds.. Just because the machine can move at 30 IPS doesn't mean you should. Also what is your Load speed (Cutting speed) These are variable all over and many different materials.. Call Onsrud and have them send you their catalog along with their Cutting feed and speeds pamphlet. It may be included now in the back of the catalog

If you ave a PDF version of you manual feel free to email me a copy and I'll take a look at it for you as I am not real familiar with Multicams setup so I would need to look at their programming to help you any further.

Sorry you are having so much trouble with your first router. Especially with such a nice tool. These machines do have a HUGE learning curve so you need to have some patience. (So if you as smart as a door knob go back to the Ebay plotter and forget it. Not saying you are just needed to lighten it up a little) But that is still no excuse for the way the Distributor is treating you.

P.S. I can be of NO help with Enroute as I don't use that program.

 

[andy]

If you bought an ATC system you have the right to expect that the system will function as advertised- an automatic tool changing system. Multicam CANNOT possibly claim that they have supplied you with a functioning ATC if there are 7 tool holders missing. It sounds like Multicam are trying it on so I would call their bluff- tell them they have 7 days to supply the tool holders otherwise the matter will be placed in the hands of your legal people.

If the misting unit leaks issue Multicam with a rejection notice which states they have 7 days to repair or replace this item.

Have you anyone local to you with a CNC shop? You really need someone with some experience to have a looksey at the machine so you have something concrete to go back to multicam with.

 

[gabagoo]

the power of the internet!!!!! send them this link and let them see all the thousands of sign companies that may be reading this thread. Make good Multicam!!!! I for one will never purchase anything from them now, until I hear a happy ending here!!!

 

[gbahue]

I was at the sign show in los angeles two years ago. I made preparation to go to the Orange County office of Multicam for a demonstration while in So Cal. I was prepared to see a demonstration and buy one of their machines. $60K. I drive for an hour in LA traffic arive at the Multicam office when expected and was promptly told that there wasnt anyone there to demonstrate the machine. But, but I had an appointment..."Sorry, there's no one here to demonstrate the machine" It was a turning point. The office humps were rude and this would be where I would be serviced from. The alarm bell in my head went off, I put my hand in my pocket and touched the deposit check that I had prepared and left. I went back to the show spoke again to the Axyx rep and eventually bought a Techno machine. Great purchase. *Excellent* service. We are very happy and saved $15K in the process. Happy to communicate my experience with Techno reps off line.

I really think you have to poke the multicam people. You are getting boned. Poor customer service is really not acceptable.

g

 

[BlueRidgeFabrication]

We have two Muliticam's and couldn't be happier with the product. They are great machines and run like a champ.

Compared to some older no name tables we had a while back the Multicams run just as smooth as butter.

You mentioned it was "jerking" or shaking as it changes direction - this could be a number of things - which many people have touched on in this thread - but I had a similar experience that might be of help.

A few years ago I had purchased a CNC table from one of Multicams competitors. Very similar machine and setup to Multicam. Machine arrived, tech came, things seemed to work, but after he left the problems started showing up. Everytime we ran a cut file on the table it would jerk or stagger when it changed directions. V- grooving or cutting a circle was terrible.

I spent 5 weeks working on that table - 45grand and it doesnt work. I had to call tech support 2-3 times a day. I kept getting the same thing each time - try this, try that, oh the tech dept is busy, we'll call you back, etc..

Finally, the problem was the software. The control software (not enroute or artcam - the actual machine software) was set up for the wrong table configuration. The table thought it had stepper motors when it actually had servo's - this is what was causing the missing steps when the table was running.

So it might be one avenue you should check out.

I was frustrated at the time - but afterwards I knew more about cnc tables and how they operate than I would have discovered on my own in probably 2 years of normal operation.

There is a steep learning curve when you are just starting out- stick with it though - the Multicam's are solid performers.

 

[Janey]

Just wanted to touch base as I so appreciate all of your support. Making calls today not much success with the holiday. Guess Monday will be my big push.

20/20 hindsight these issues were in my face before I gave them a deposit. I just really figured it would all work out a little smoother then this.

I called the finance broker today that I guess works with MultiCam, she was at the Vegas show and I asked her to talk with Joe as I am not letting this go. I told her that I emailed him directly last Sunday and I have not heard from him. She sounded so surprised. I don't know...they exhaust me.

Well, I guess I really don't have any news. Just wanted to say thanks and I will keep you updated.

 

[Janey]

First off Here is where you can buy Onsrud Bits Direct.

https://www.onsrud.com/home

Ok now what's happening with your router. You need to go into your setup in you controller software NOT enroute, and find a setting for ramping (Ramp Speed). What ramping does, Its slows down the router when its going to change directions then speeds back up once the drastic change has been made.

Also if your getting that much vibration you may look at your Jog speeds.. Just because the machine can move at 30 IPS doesn't mean you should. Also what is your Load speed (Cutting speed) These are variable all over and many different materials.. Call Onsrud and have them send you their catalog along with their Cutting feed and speeds pamphlet. It may be included now in the back of the catalog

If you ave a PDF version of you manual feel free to email me a copy and I'll take a look at it for you as I am not real familiar with Multicams setup so I would need to look at their programming to help you any further.

Sorry you are having so much trouble with your first router. Especially with such a nice tool. These machines do have a HUGE learning curve so you need to have some patience. (So if you as smart as a door knob go back to the Ebay plotter and forget it. Not saying you are just needed to lighten it up a little) But that is still no excuse for the way the Distributor is treating you.

P.S. I can be of NO help with Enroute as I don't use that program.

Just wanted to say this is some great info...but I really don't want to get into the programming of the thing. And I can't find a manual that gets into that part or I would send it to you.

I have poked around but the machine is running it just isn't running like it should. And I really don't want it to go down as I have a lot of signs to cut over the weekend and I really don't want to go back to vinyl, weed and sandblast...etc.

The Enroute part really doesn't have me stumped...but I am only doing simple 2d stuff...the 3d is coming along it is just a matter of finding time to practice.

Anyways....thanks again. Peace, Janey

 

[neato]

Well, so far 328 views. That could be 150-200 potential customers. I would think that sending them a link to this thread would be in order.

Not that I'm in the market for a CNC machine personally, but it's always interesting to hear about the way companies deal with customers after the sale.