Light boxes / LED Channel letters & UL

[reQ]

I had discussion with one of my new customers, he is an electrician. He did some electrical work for friend of mine, specifically wired a light box, with was manufactured by a welding shop. He claims that as long as he is using UL ir CSA listed parts its all legal etc & does not have to be re-certified etc.

I am not an electrician, but for some reason i think a complete enclosure such as light box or channel letter, has to carry is own cUL/CSA label? Or UL listed parts installed by licensed electrician is enough? Did any one have any experience with this situation & inspectors?

 

[GaSouthpaw]

Well before all the "UL is a scam" posts start popping up, a possible answer to your question:
I think the channel letter/light box/whatever have to have their own UL certificate, because- even with UL listed parts- you could still have someone putting them together who doesn't know what they're doing or does it incorrectly and causes a hazard.
As for the repair/install side, I have not run into an issue where an electrician had to be UL certified (though I'm sure it comes up). I would think, yes- installing UL certified materials covers that instance. They do, however, normally have to have current certification as an electrician.

 

[reQ]

I am just going by my own experience. Once we refubrished the box, gutted old tubes ballasts etc & installed LED lights, we had to get it certified again. All i am asking - If some one takes a box/channel letter & installed UL listed electric components in it, i think it is still not legal to be installed

 

[MikePro]

UL parts don't necessarily mean UL assembled product, and modifying a sign in the field voids the UL listing of the product, and therefore may void the permit for the sign if it is a requirement.

"UL Marks may only be applied at manufacturing facilities authorized by UL. Any violations should be immediately reported to UL. The only exception is if UL authorizes the UL Mark to be applied in the field as a result of a field inspection. During a field inspection UL representatives determine if the product complies with applicable safety standards and requirements, and if compliance is determined product labeling is performed in the presence of the UL representative. "

"An authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer’s declaration that the product was manufactured in accordance with all applicable requirements, and was in compliance with those requirements when it was shipped from the factory. When a UL Listed product is modified, retrofitted or altered in any way after it leaves the factory, it is not possible for UL to confirm that the product continues to meet the applicable certification safety requirements unless the field modifications are specifically investigated by UL."

 

[reQ]

Yup, that what i was talking about. That is why we had to get new certification for light box that we removed old tubes & installed all new LED lights. I just had hard time to explain to him that even if parts are UL listed, it does not make can/channel letter assembly UL listed.

P.S. So i am right lol

 

[MikePro]

yup! at that point its a matter if anyone wants to make a stink about it, and whether or not the permit for the sign actually hinges on UL listing.

and for the nay-say'ers, I agree that UL feels like its a scam....in a sense. No one likes another middle-man in the process, BUT it sets a standard that cities can happily put their stamp of approval on with no liability attached. As a sign shop that is certified to UL list our product and "easily" obtain sign permits for projects, we appreciate that it helps set us further apart from the other "sign shops".

 

[reQ]

yup! at that point its a matter if anyone wants to make a stink about it, and whether or not the permit for the sign actually hinges on UL listing.

Permits are not hinged on UL labels, but our inspectors always check for UL label if they are on site. They want to see that sticker/label but they don't even check number... seen it myself.

 

[MikePro]

Permits are not hinged on UL labels, but our inspectors always check for UL label if they are on site. They want to see that sticker/label but they don't even check number... seen it myself.

that's Canada for ya, eh? so what do they call Inchworms up there?

However, many U.S. cities I've done work in, require it. If they don't require it, it usually requires an electrical sign inspection (and a fee) that we have seen waved many times due to UL label. Still, depending on permit requirements (UL label or not) electrical modifications may require re-permit/re-inspection.

 

[Westcoast Sign Guy]

Whether a sign structure needs a UL Sticker or not is dependent on your city.

There are still a large number of states & Cities that do not require a UL finished product (Exterior sign or section label) when it comes to signs but rather all parts/components are listed.

For the longest time we had real inspectors that actually opened up sign structures, whereas some city inspectors just look for a label and signed off an inspection. Sadly my city converted over to Listed Signs, by UL, MET or others