Local competitor with WAY LOW pricing

[Gino]

Your statement makes little to no sense. Every time you turn the key in the ignition, it costs more than having the vehicle sit in the lot. Every time you use your equipment, you are nicking away at its value. This may be a small amount in the grand scheme of things, but why in the world do put zero value in it? How much will it cost if your van gets a blow-out on the way to a job that you didn't charge for installation? How many hours labor do you have to pay, how much will it be to pay for the repair? OR what happens if something goes wrong on the install, and you need to re-do half the job?

These are rare occurrences, I'm sure, and obviously you know more than anyone else here, but I still don't understand why you are so fast to undervalue your services for no apparent reason. This was their starting-line quote. Do you regularly throw things in for free, for no reason?

Just did a quote about an hour ago where I quoted $260 for a portion of the job. Total job was to come to all but $3,000.00 When I gave the written quote, I outlined where I will be donating that portion and I already have the job, she just needs it in writing to submit to the committee and I'll be getting the deposit probably Wednesday or so. I did it because I wanted to.

Anyway, did you miss the part where I said it's not a good way to do business, but small profits work as well as large ones ?? You wanna try to get them as high as possible, but not to the point of loosing jobs.

If I got the two 3' x 5's for about $75, could decorate them for another $20 and sent one guy out with the bucket for an hours worth of time. I could easily make some nice money. However, I do know the value and would never go in that low, but if need be, could still make ends meet and then some at $450.

Don't get carried away with what I wrote, but the equating of the mindset of some doing this and making a nice living. There's a guy in town here that will do a set of magnetics for $25. He'll letter two doors on a pick up for $50. He'll do a 3' x 10' electric face and instal it all for $200. I go up against him all the time. People that want price go to him. People who want quality will come to us. On occasion, I'll go in a little lower and stop him from getting too much and then he lowers all his prices again. It's a game. The game is rarely 100% one way. Even the really big guys will wheel and deal, to make quota.

My motto has always been, I'd rather have 90% of something, than 100% of nothing. So, the price you first quoted is terribly low, as I mentioned, but someone with the equipment could easily do it and still make money.

What you have going there, we would've been around $890. including travel time.
​

 

[fresh]

Just did a quote about an hour ago where I quoted $260 for a portion of the job. Total job was to come to all but $3,000.00 When I gave the written quote, I outlined where I will be donating that portion and I already have the job, she just needs it in writing to submit to the committee and I'll be getting the deposit probably Wednesday or so. I did it because I wanted to.

Gotcha. Of course, I think everyone throws little things in here and there. This instance (as with everything else I've seen from this shop) was the whole she-bang. There is literally no place to make money on the job.
I think we mis-understood each other.

 

[Jillbeans]

....but by the time they finally close the shop they'll have already driven the expected market price down so that every time you quote a job you'll be dealing with people who think your honest prices are really a rip off.

^This right here all day long. Pat is right.
It's sad when the new cheap town sign whore dries up and all their customers expect me to drop my drawers for the same low low price that he did.
Love....Jill

 

[ironchef]

I always get that too, they say oh the guy on so and so street does it for this price, when i say why didn't you go there? They say they're out of business, or the phones disconnected. Its surprising how they open and close, and get stuck with the people used to those prices.

 

[gabagoo]

First off, I never understand why we get upset about low ballers....If you have been in business for any reasonable amount of time, your customers, if they are loyal and trust you, should never have to really continually check pricing against other sign shops.

A comfort level usually exists between you and your regular customers. You have all their artwork and they know, that you know what they like....why would they want to start over with a new company and take a chance that the quality would suffer (the guy is definately using 3ml) and that the job would get done in a reasonable amount of time?

I also really don't like the practice of customers telling you what another company charged...are they looking for a better price?... and how do you know for sure that it is really the price they say?

Move on and forget about it.... I for one can't deal with to many cheap customers anymore.

 

[Jillbeans]

A comfort level usually exists between you and your regular customers. You have all their artwork and they know, that you know what they like....why would they want to start over with a new company and take a chance that the quality would suffer

Happened to me last year with my main client.
There is no such thing as customer loyalty.

 

[Gino]

Many of our customers have been with me as long as 25 to 30 years. They are truly loyal, but they do bid me out from time to time to keep me honest. I can't get lazy and count on them.... anyway, not in today's computer age of sign making.

When there was talent and skill involved... only skilled and talented people could do the work, but today, no one cares about someone making a perfectly made ugly sign.

Look around and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[fresh]

First off, I never understand why we get upset about low ballers....If you have been in business for any reasonable amount of time, your customers, if they are loyal and trust you, should never have to really continually check pricing against other sign shops.

A comfort level usually exists between you and your regular customers. You have all their artwork and they know, that you know what they like....why would they want to start over with a new company and take a chance that the quality would suffer (the guy is definately using 3ml) and that the job would get done in a reasonable amount of time?

I also really don't like the practice of customers telling you what another company charged...are they looking for a better price?... and how do you know for sure that it is really the price they say?

Move on and forget about it.... I for one can't deal with to many cheap customers anymore.

These are new customers, shopping around for the best deal... Or maybe they just didn't feel comfortable with the other companies, so they kept looking. It may not be about price. I have no idea, all I know is that this is the third time I've physically seen a quote from the same shop that is either at or less than wholesale prices.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

You've been under-cheaped.

 

[gabagoo]

These are new customers, shopping around for the best deal... Or maybe they just didn't feel comfortable with the other companies, so they kept looking. It may not be about price. I have no idea, all I know is that this is the third time I've physically seen a quote from the same shop that is either at or less than wholesale prices.

Why would you want them in the first place....they are cheap and even when they get a cheap price they keep looking... move on...forget about them...

I understand how it is annoying, but if the competition thinks they can do it, then go for it.... They will learn one way or the other that they are to low

 

[TXFB.INS]

Why would you want them in the first place....they are cheap and even when they get a cheap price they keep looking... move on...forget about them...

I understand how it is annoying, but if the competition thinks they can do it, then go for it.... They will learn one way or the other that they are to low

 

[paulica]

I don't think you guys heard of Romania. I run a print shop, in a 300k population town. I have everything from offset to digital, color black, large format plot print, professional folders, scanners etc, even a surecolor epson.

Most machines are good, some older other newer, but all in all fair machines and fair prints. Like my shop, for a reason or another, I can think of at least 10 places with the same range of equipments, and another 50 smaller, some with small format some only with large format, etc.

Customer loyalty ? Quality ? Speed ? Nothing, not a single thing. Price, only price. And price is ridicolous. Depending on jobs, there is always someone quoting 50% of what I'm quoting. Even more, these customers, if they do have a larger job, where I could make something, they pay late or they never pay.

I don't know what to say. It's getting more difficult to make this work and still make something to live, and from time to time invest. My competitors are constantly loaning money, they owe money to banks, but somehow are still in business. And somehow they live. They never have money. But they're shop is still open.

So for me at least, waiting for them to go bankrupt is not an option.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

just sweat it out for long, at that price they won't be in business for long.

+1

 

[MikePro]

quote your price, wouldn't be a surprise if they went to your competitor with "your" price to get them that low... and then fudged on "their" numbers to get you to play ball.

 

[TXFB.INS]

quote your price, wouldn't be a surprise if they went to your competitor with "your" price to get them that low... and then fudged on "their" numbers to get you to play ball.

exactly, seen it done again and again!

 

[ironchef]

I did a quote for a box truck, the guy told me i was too high, that a guy in kendall does it for 350... the two doors, two sides and the back. Cut vinyl, two colors. Pfff i told him get me his number so i can send him jobs. Lol i don't get mad anymore. I laugh. Its hilarious.

 

[john1]

lol damn, does the guy even have any balls left after doing a $1000+ job for $350?

 

[xxtoni]

I don't think you guys heard of Romania. I run a print shop, in a 300k population town. I have everything from offset to digital, color black, large format plot print, professional folders, scanners etc, even a surecolor epson.

Most machines are good, some older other newer, but all in all fair machines and fair prints. Like my shop, for a reason or another, I can think of at least 10 places with the same range of equipments, and another 50 smaller, some with small format some only with large format, etc.

Customer loyalty ? Quality ? Speed ? Nothing, not a single thing. Price, only price. And price is ridicolous. Depending on jobs, there is always someone quoting 50% of what I'm quoting. Even more, these customers, if they do have a larger job, where I could make something, they pay late or they never pay.

I don't know what to say. It's getting more difficult to make this work and still make something to live, and from time to time invest. My competitors are constantly loaning money, they owe money to banks, but somehow are still in business. And somehow they live. They never have money. But they're shop is still open.

So for me at least, waiting for them to go bankrupt is not an option.

I mostly agree with you.

In my place the situation is similar but probably worse. We work with large companies and even they have dramatically shrunk their printing budgets, they mostly seem to focus on TV advertising.

The problem is when you offer high quality print and even when you have someone on the inside they have o justify printing with you. If your quote is twice as expensive as someone elses someone asks "Why do we always print with them when they're twice as expensive".

People, especially people in business simply don't understand why they should pay more for the "same" thing. The print quality of course isn't even comparable. We offer high quality fine print and what they offer looks like minecraft...


To be honest I don't understand why so many people are wondering about this. Someone works with print some way or another, sees the process he figures "this isn't hard, I can do this" and gets a loan, buys a machine, maybe a delivery van. Of course after a while the costs start pilling up, he can't pay the loan back so what do we do now ?

Well we crash the market of course. Just sell, it doesn't matter if you only make 2 cents on the dollar...just SELLLLL and once that happens there's no recovery.


What has kept us from being destroyed by the pricing is that we do a lot of things. We do design, brands, illuminated signs for chain stores and so on. Basically what happens is if you create a brand for someone which costs quite a bit of money they'll probably opt to have the stuff printed with you, to save the trouble of doing it with someone else.

If they aren't so cooperative you can strong arm them a little to persuade them why it's the right thing to do.

There are always people out there that want quality but don't know any better, it is your job to find those people and educate them, don't blame someone else.

 

[Techman]

With all the complaining about the other guy being so cheap.
None are talking about getting training to market their products for a price they want to get.
How does one company charge a large price (grimco) and get the price they want while another company (harbor freight) low balls and stays in business?

How does Piedmont plastics charge what they want and stay in business while Total Plastics charges less and stays in business?

It is all in the marketing. Its a process that takes a business out of the commodity market and into the custom market. They develop a unique marketing strategy that makes them seem unique while at the same time they sell identical products.

 

[xxtoni]

I don't think you guys heard of Romania. I run a print shop, in a 300k population town. I have everything from offset to digital, color black, large format plot print, professional folders, scanners etc, even a surecolor epson.

Most machines are good, some older other newer, but all in all fair machines and fair prints. Like my shop, for a reason or another, I can think of at least 10 places with the same range of equipments, and another 50 smaller, some with small format some only with large format, etc.

Customer loyalty ? Quality ? Speed ? Nothing, not a single thing. Price, only price. And price is ridicolous. Depending on jobs, there is always someone quoting 50% of what I'm quoting. Even more, these customers, if they do have a larger job, where I could make something, they pay late or they never pay.

I don't know what to say. It's getting more difficult to make this work and still make something to live, and from time to time invest. My competitors are constantly loaning money, they owe money to banks, but somehow are still in business. And somehow they live. They never have money. But they're shop is still open.

So for me at least, waiting for them to go bankrupt is not an option.

With all the complaining about the other guy being so cheap.
None are talking about getting training to market their products for a price they want to get.
How does one company charge a large price (grimco) and get the price they want while another company (harbor freight) low balls and stays in business?

How does Piedmont plastics charge what they want and stay in business while Total Plastics charges less and stays in business?

It is all in the marketing. Its a process that takes a business out of the commodity market and into the custom market. They develop a unique marketing strategy that makes them seem unique while at the same time they sell identical products.

Short, accurate and to the point.
Best post so far.