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Looking for some insight!

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eomedia

New Member
Hey guys-

Plan to be doing advertising involving a lot of signage (particularly transit). I'm going to be contracting that portion out, but I would really like to learn about the technical aspect of materials and installation so I can at least be knowledgeable when a printer/installer makes a recommendation. Don't know how much I can be of help when sharing knowledge from my end, but I'll do what I can to make it a two way street.

Thanks!
 
E

eomedia

New Member
watsons signs said:
welcome, what do you want to know in perticular?
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Thanks for asking.

I've been looking through the forum posts to answer some questions on my own and spare the flames ;)

First I would what some suggestions would be for shorter-term transit-grade vinyl? Busmark seems to come up a lot, and there seem to be several grades of 3m in that spectrum. I also had some reps throw out Mactac vinyl as comparative to 3m but lesser price, but I believe that was just in general. I've looked through the posts and there seem to be a few thrown around but I didn't quite catch which was best for what scenario (i.e. under 3 months, under 6months, under a year).

Second I have read a few horror stories about vinyl wraps leaving ghost imprints after removal or damaging paint jobs. Seems to be mostly after longer periods of adhesion but I did read a couple where short term wraps wound up ruining the paint job of the vehicle. I would like to learn a little more on that, as not damaging clients vehicles is paramount.

Third I was looking around for cheaper/creative alternatives to vinyl wraps - i.e. I've seen people using 3m's Dual Lock in conjunction with standard banners to achieve the same effect. Also, in speaking with some sales reps they had a few ideas for printing standard non-adhesive banners and using adhesive strips for mounting on windows (storefront, non-vehicle).

And, of course, anything you guys think should be put out there.

And there are other things. I've gone through a lot of the forum but obviously there are tons and tons of posts to sift through.

Thanks for the help.
 
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E

eomedia

New Member
ChicagoGraphics said:
Doesn't look like you will be doing much of anything with out knowing what the hell your doing first.

Welcome to signs 101
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I guess it's a good thing I'm not selling cars then, right? Learning how to build those things before I can sell them would have to be a pretty time consuming process. :doh:

... and glad to be here! :thumb:
 
HulkSmash

HulkSmash

New Member
We install on Buses using IJ3500 series, then liquid laminated. It has the control tac backer. Comes off like butter for removal.
 
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eomedia

New Member
Coloradosigns said:
We install on Buses using IJ3500 series, then liquid laminated. It has the control tac backer. Comes off like butter for removal.
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Hey, thanks for that.

Ok, this is definitely going to show my newbishness. What is the relation between the upper film layer and the backer? Could you slap any film on any backer, or is it typically sold as a package/one piece?
 
HulkSmash

HulkSmash

New Member
eomedia said:
Hey, thanks for that.

Ok, this is definitely going to show my newbishness. What is the relation between the upper film layer and the backer? Could you slap any film on any backer, or is it typically sold as a package/one piece?
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How are you planning on offering something you know nothing about? :banghead:

When you install a wrap, or anything on a vehicle you want it to have an "AIR RELEASE" backing so you can press bubbles out. It makes install easier, and much cleaner.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Quick question for ya, eome.........

Since you're planning on contracting everything out and know nothing about the logistics of the industry... is it safe to presume you're looking to become a 'Broker' ??

Based on some of your concerns/questions, you really don't know anything about this industry. What makes you think you can learn it in a few days, weeks or even months and be capable of competing against people in this industry doing it the safe better way, by using industry standard media with proper techniques against your looking for cheaper vinyl and short-cuts ??

Your earlier concerns about ghosting and peeling paint is largely due to doing it in the fashion you are in fact searching.... by cutting corners on all levels. Your post #11 says it all.
 
sar bossier

sar bossier

New Member
Bonjour from Louisiana ... Quick suggestion for you - try an apprenticeship in an established sign shop that specializes in what you want to offer, and learn from hands on experience about the products, uses, applications and methods, vinyl types, etc. Otherwise, the learning to error curve and expense to you will be TREMENDOUS.
 
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eomedia

New Member
Gino said:
Quick question for ya, eome.........

Since you're planning on contracting everything out and know nothing about the logistics of the industry... is it safe to presume you're looking to become a 'Broker' ??
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Bingo. I believe that still fits in the Signs101 target group.

Based on some of your concerns/questions, you really don't know anything about this industry. What makes you think you can learn it in a few days, weeks or even months and be capable of competing against people in this industry doing it the safe better way, by using industry standard media with proper techniques against your looking for cheaper vinyl and short-cuts ??

Your earlier concerns about ghosting and peeling paint is largely due to doing it in the fashion you are in fact searching.... by cutting corners on all levels. Your post #11 says it all.
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That would be correct. And, for the most part, I would be relying the skills and expertise of the licensed, bonded, and insured printers and installers I would contract out to. In fact, I deliberately chose established companies to partner with that already do transit (etc) installs.

I'm not trying to learn the entire industry, and true, it would help to have a background if for nothing more than the knowledge. But ultimately when your local transit authority contracts out for a company to wrap their buses, trains, what have you, they pay precisely so they don't have to deal with any of the things that I've asked about.

In regards to cheapness... not really the case. Fair price for a product that fits the application? Of course. Cheap at the expense of *necessary* performance? No way.

My perspective I'm sure is sacrilege to a group of people who have spent years honing their skills in a very hands-on trade. :notworthy: (I read the All Over Media thread; I expected it) But I would like to learn the basics so I at least know what is going on behind the scenes, so to speak. I don't expect anyone here to embrace me as I throw out elementary questions to a bunch of pros, but I am making the effort to know a little more than your average largely ignorant end user.



I do appreciate all the insight, btw.

And thanks to the other welcomes as well.
 
E

eomedia

New Member
sar bossier said:
Bonjour from Louisiana ... Quick suggestion for you - try an apprenticeship in an established sign shop that specializes in what you want to offer, and learn from hands on experience about the products, uses, applications and methods, vinyl types, etc. Otherwise, the learning to error curve and expense to you will be TREMENDOUS.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not I had considered it for the frame of reference.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
There's nothing at all wrong with being a broker in this business. Just keep it above board and we'll all be copacetic.

As for the rest of your confession..... none of it's needed. You conduct yourself however you wish and do your thing. Come here, ask questions, get good insight on things lotsa other people don't have a clue............... but don't for a second think we'll give you much help if you're gonna try to use this information to put some legitimate sign shop out of business.

Here's what happens to the majority of 'brokers' and why I really don't like them.

For the most part, they try to get jobs by undercutting other legit sign shops. Okay, so there's some friendly competition going on. Brokers' idea of getting business is by price while the normal sign guy/gal think of quality selling the product. This goes on for a while and before too long, the 'broker' has to find someone cheaper and cheaper to do his work in order to make his percentage/living. So, it goes on until you run out of subs that will work with you, so you start producing what you can in some little shop and producing things totally wrong, but selling with an authoritative voice and thus ruining the market in your area.

Sure, there are those 'brokers' that have made it in this business, but not by selling signs and sorts. They usually do well selling what I've always called 'Novelties'. Things like mugs, pens, yard sticks, apparel, lettered up footballs and all kinds of other things. Many times they will offer signs on the side, but to be a 'broker' and focus on signs is kinda bad logic. How can you ever expect to compete with others that do this stuff for a living everyday inside-out ??

Anyway, you probably have everything worked out in your head, so I invite you to really take a hard look at your game plan and re-visit how you intend to be the go-between for the transit companies and the sign shops you are aligning yourself with to do this. :peace!:​
 
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