Lusterboard delaminating!?!

[Jane Diaz]

Is anyone else having problems? We just had a pretty good customer in and his 4 year old sign has had the aluminum peel back, "start flapping in the wind" (his description) and then the sign flew off the posts. We DID have some high winds but that shouldn't have caused the material to delaminate, right? What is going on with our materials!!! We trust our distributors to provide good stuff, they get it from where they think is a good source but WE are the ones who have to explain why our signs are falling apart!! We do a great job of sealing the edges with epoxy and paint, we do everything the right way, it just doesn't seem right to have it fall apart!
I know this customer would like us to replace this sign for him at no cost...well the sign IS 4 years old. I told him we could give him a discount on a new sign but even at that, it's not OUR fault. Why are WE the one who has to give the discount!?! Luckily he is a carpenter/builder and I used the old "Well, you know how YOUR wooden materials are changing and holding up" and he seemed to get that but still....

 

[d fleming]

Because you are the one who got his payment 4 years ago. When Avery took a dump on all of us we in the industry looked bad, customers don't know who Avery is or lusterboard and couldn't care less. They just know who they paid to make the product. So I would 1, apologize for the problem, which I'm sure you already have, 2, fix it quick at a pro-rated amount and 3, stop using the product that failed immediately. Sucks bit that's about the only way to go..

 

[Marlene]

we used the wood core with aluminum and also with the plastic on a wood core and had problem with both.

 

[RJ California]

Any discount would have to be amortized over a 5 to 7 year sign life expectancy. His discount shouldn't be much more than 20-30% at this point.

I've never heard of Lusterboard doing that. Hopefully it was just a bad batch of laminate glue.

 

[Jane Diaz]

We've talked to several friends and they are having trouble too. We WILL take care of the problem as that is just what we do for our customers. But it is just frustrating to have this problem, really through no fault of our own other than trusting that the material we THOUGHT was a good option was NOT! Venting helps!
And I like the suggestion of pro-rating the sign. Hey once you drive the car off the lot, it's used, right? They have gotten 4 years of use out of ithe sign...

 

[Jillbeans]

I did a major park job in 2007 with Lusterboard, hope to God it's OK.
Although I won't warranty it because not only did I not install it, those who did cut the signs into two parts when installing them.
I know someone whose Alumalite delaminated upon unmasking it.
But so far so good for me, I use it particularly because it's a Pennsylvania product and Laminators were always very generous to my Letterheads meets.
Love....Jill

 

[Joe Diaz]

Several more customers have called complaining about this issue. These Signs were done in the late 06 - 07 time period. I called Laminators Inc and left a message hoping to get some answers. We will see if they call. One of these jobs, is a large account located all over the northern and central Illinois areas. This is really going to hurt our business if we are expected to repair these signs on our dollar.

Is anyone else having this issue with the Lusterboard products from 06 and 07? This could be another Avery like problem most of us went through.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Here is what we are finding on these signs:


All of them had edges that were epoxied and painted. Some signs are painted, some signs have vinyl graphics. This particular sign we have to completely dismantle just to get to the lusterboard. What a mess.

 

[XGSSDT]

My only concern with this is.... You did not seal it according to what Laminators says should be done for them to warranty the product. That being said we have had problems with wood products over the last few years and have not offered them for about 1 year now. In the past sealing them the way you have has been more than adequate and would hold up fine. Laminators only told us that it is because of the quality of wood that they are able to get and had nothing to do with the "glue laminate".

Good Luck.

 

[Joe Diaz]

My only concern with this is.... You did not seal it according to what Laminators says should be done for them to warranty the product.

Yes we have. Every last sign that leaves our shop has been properly sealed for outdoor use. If we run a fastener trough the material, that too is sealed. We did everything right in these cases. We even have well documented photos and information to back this up. In fact, one of these jobs was in signcraft, where we even advertised our use of lusterboard and the products used to seal it. It's the product, not us. And we aren't the only shop to have this problem. And we have older jobs with that same product that are still going strong. It's something about that batch from 07.

And warrantying the product isn't enough, Some of these signs, with the exception of the posts, have to be completely redone. Thats paint, vinyl, sealed edges, labor, etc....

The real crappy thing about this situation is this: We make it right with our customers but the product manufactures usually won't make it right with theirs (us sign makers). So the folks that are doing the right thing and standing by their product yet didn't do anything wrong, are the ones that have to suffer.

I haven't heard back form Laminators Inc, so hopefully they will be the exception to the rule and do the right thing. But if they don't, I'll tell you this, we are going to use everything we learned from dealing with Avery.

 

[petepaz]

i had a problem with the alum/vinyl product the offer.
the sign i did was a post and panel sign and it was ok on the alum side but the pvc side started to peel forutnately it was the back and nothing was on it. i was able to just take a piece of .040 alum i had around the shop and zip screw it in to the wood and the customer was happy but it was only out side for like 2 years

 

[xpressgraphixman]

What does your distributor say about this. They should have the most "pull" with the manufacturer. Put pressure there.

 

[Joe Diaz]

What does your distributor say about this. They should have the most "pull" with the manufacturer. Put pressure there.

Yeah we have tried. Our distributors first question our methods to see if we are to blame (which always makes you feel warm and fuzzy doesn't it) then they tell us to take it up with the manufactures (who won't return our calls). I'm starting to wonder if being a walmart greeter is a better career path. :ROFLMAO:

 

[Gino]

After four years, I hope you get something.

I completely stopped using this product because we had one that delaminated in less then a year. I had several others delaminate, also. This would've been in the late 80's or early 90's. I had absolutely no problem with MDO doing this, so I used MDO exclusively.

They told me I was the cause in every case. I told them to go pound sand I'll never buy the product again... and to my knowledge, I haven't.


This isn't a defense for their product, but what I kinda figured goes wrong. When laminating a wood product and an aluminum product, the both breath and expand and contract under totally different conditions. This can easily cause a separation in their product. However, this can also cause a small pinhole in your sealing methods. They always seemed to delaminate from the top and follow some ply down through and rot very quickly causing this delaminating. I cut a few of these apart and they are totally rotten inside. My one was less than a year and it was completely rotted. No way in Hell, was that from any poor techniques. I believe the wood is total crap and they figure with the aluminum on it.... it's deemed a good product. Well, if morning dew or just plain moisture can build up on the inside of those plies.... you're gonna have delamination. So, in my opinion.... you're totally screwed when using this product. Besides.... it's so frickin' heavy. Get what you can out of them and chalk it up to experience. Go wood or Omegabond.

 

[Malkin]

We used a similar product for a few years until it started doing the same thing. It seems the plywood used was one of the fastest to rot kinds out there, and it would expand and blow the face of the sign.

We simply abandoned it and went with Alumalite for most of those applications.

Our distributor never acknowledged the problem, but they did buy back our stock of it and then mysteriously stopped carrying the product.

Good Luck.

 

[fmg]

I have had the same problem with Lusterboard circa 08-09