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Making a Lightbox for a backlite sign?

I

intense_design

New Member
I am wondering about how to make a lightbox for a lighted sign to go outside.. The frame wouldn't be a problem for me to build. Just curious as to what to use inside for the lighting? (recommendations) Do I need to worry about using flame-retardant materials. Just wondering some input about this.. I want to build it the right way, so if there is something i shouldn't do.. please let me know.. (this will be for me, I've always wanted to build one) I live in a town of 1,000 people like we have any lighted signs around here!
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
You might live in a small town where many signs of this nature don't exist, but the questions you're asking tell me you have no clue as to what you're about to tackle. Therefore, I can only presume, you have no electrical background, let alone an electrical license. This alone would stop you immediately around my part of the country from entertaining the idea of making this.

You would be better off having it made professionally and just paying to have it made legally.

Just because someone thinks they can make something, doesn't always equate to being allowed to do it.

Please don't make the mistake so many make..... and go down a path creating red flags around yourself. If there wasn't electric involved, you could do what you want, but for now... it's a liability problem and you're insurance won't cover you should anything go wrong, or worse yet, if someone gets hurt or killed from an illegally made electric sign.
 
W

wetgravy

Guest
if you need a lighted sign ... flourescents are an easy way to go ... replacement is easy and cost effective for the bulbs ... they use juice though. Led's need a little more tlc for installing and wiring .. but last 3 times as long with 1/10th the juice to power.

don't use regular incandescents.
 
Marlene

Marlene

New Member
I want to build it the right way, so if there is something i shouldn't do.. please let me know..
Click to expand...


you shouldn't build it as it needs to be UL listed. find a vendor and buy a cabinet made to code.
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
From your questions I get the distinct impression that you have little to no experience with electrical signs.... in which case my only recommendation would be to buy a wholesale UL listed cabinet and then do the faces.
I am very capable of building an electric box but do not anymore because of codes and liabilities, I buy wholesale UL cabinets.
 
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intense_design

New Member
I head ya Gino, I'm not looking to put it up.. I'm just looking for the experience of it and the in's and out's.. just a learning basis basically (just one of those things you "would like to try" that's all)
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I guess I'm really confused now. Anyone else ??


You want to build a sign to put outside per your first post, but you now aren't going to use it ??

Let's just say this is a 4' x 6' can single sided. The extrusion, supports, raceway covers, lamps, sockets, ballasts and all the screws and whatnot are going to cost you at least $500, not including the face.

Why would anyone just want to build something that can't be used anywhere ??

Do you realize that your experimenting on building these things is not going to give you the go ahead to produce them ?? Merely learning on your own or via the internet won't help you at all. You need to get an electrician 's license to legally fabricate this type of sign. Only the proper channels will eventually allow you to build these things. This goes for indoor, outdoor, channel letters, neon and even putting ground lights for externally lit signs.
 
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k.a.s.

k.a.s.

New Member
I gonna disagree with people here, the only way to learn how to do somthing is to do it. Now, should you sell and non listed electric sign to someone, no. Should you learn how to make it safely, yes. But it is not rocket science, a sign can is basicly extrusions, a ballast, lamp sockets,some wire and bulbs. Anyone with a little electrical knowledge could wire one. Most locals require a UL stamp and therefore you have abide by that. But to say that because he is not a UL shop he is not allowed to build one to put in his front yard is a little ridiculous.

Just my opinion.

Kevin
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
But to say that because he is not a UL shop he is not allowed to build one to put in his front yard is a little ridiculous
Click to expand...
That may be a little ridiculous, but it is the law in many areas.
 
Mosh

Mosh

New Member
HO flourecent, normal ones will not work right in cold weather and do not last long enough for a commercial application.

If you are not licensed you are in for a big lawsuit if there ever is a fire, even in 20 years from now. That is why I have to keep my electric license up to date at a cost of $200 a year. Let alone alot of places require signs to be UL listed now a days. It is not rocket science, but you need a license to protect yourself and insurance that goes along with that.
 
G

ggsigns

New Member
I get weary of folks who think because their local is heavily regulated that everyone operates in that environment. Fact is many places do NOT require anything more than a business license to legally make electric signs. In my area, for example, 95% of jurisdictions do not require UL and could care less if a sign is made UL. Therefore it is not illegal. And to tell the truth we don't have signs causing fires and electrocuting folks. So I don't buy the premise that regulations are to protect the public. Regulations are the result of government agencies that just need to exercise their power and create a revenue stream via licensing. Now is it wise to build an electric devise without some training, of course not. Is it wise to build an electric devise if your insurance doesn't cover that, of course not. My point is, there are many good reasons to tread slowly in this area, and it has nothing to do with your local codes.

and OP if you pm me I'll walk you through the whole thing.
 
Wes Phifer

Wes Phifer

New Member
You have to go an hour and half from me to get to anywhere that requires a UL stamp. I have been building lighted signs for 14 years with no electrical license or UL stamp. I know in some places it is different. I think if it is not illegal in your area you might as well try it. It is not rocket science. Good luck.
 
signmeup

signmeup

New Member
Where I live you can make electric signs all you want. You have to have them inspected to get the UL stamp before they can be legally hooked up. It is tiring to hear the same people over and over and over tell people they can't make these things. Like the poster above stated "maybe where you live...."

If you feel the need to to caution someone, so be it. Just tell them to check their local codes and be done with it. Codes are different everywhere you go and what might be illegal where you live may not be where I am.

I will add that up here the requirements for UL stamping were brought about by several large sign companies in the city wanting to exclude the small shops. It worked. It costs $250 to have the sign box inspected on the inspectors site. That adds too much expence to the job so little shops generally don't bother making them.

The big shops get a different type of deal... they can self inspect. I bought a can from one of these shops a while back and it had no spring sockets for the tubes. I have no idea how they thought the tubes would come out when they were in need of replacement..... so self inspection doesn't mean you're gonna get a properly made sign. Inspection by a competent inspector would though. Funny how things work.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Hey Wes.... take a look.

Arizona

Code

No statewide code. Most municipalities and Coconimo, Maricopa, and Pima counties adopt the National Electrical Code. Residential, commercial, and industrial work must be performed in accordance with the FHA Minimum Property Standards and Manual of Acceptable Practices.
Enforcement

Codes are enforced by the by the municipality or county and enforcement of the contractors is by the State Registrar of Contractors.
Licensing

Electrical Contractor

Licenses may be issued to firms or individuals. Applicants must have had four (4) years trade experience within the last ten (10) years, not have had a license refused or revoked within one (1) year prior to the application, and must pass a written examination. Contractors are required to furnish a bond; residential contractors must either participate in a Consumer Recovery Fund or furnish an additional surety bond or cash deposit.
Journeyman

Licensed at local levels.
FeesElectrical ContractorJourneyman New Residential Contractor License$770.00*N/A Renewal$540.00/2yrN/A New Commercial Contractor License$645.00*N/A Renewal of Commercial License$490.00/2yrN/A Dual (Commercial and Residential) License$1265.00*N/A Renewal of Dual License$1030.00/2yrN/A *plus bond
Reciprocity

California, Nevada, and Utah
The Arizona Registrar of Contractors may waive trade examination requirements for contractors who want to be licensed in both states. No state licensing of journeymen and master electricians. Electricians are licensed by municipalities or counties. Under the agreement, Arizona can accept the licensing qualifications of these states. Applicants will be required to pass the Arizona Business Management examination and complete all other requirements for licensing in Arizona.
Contact


____________________________________________
:Oops:gg.... you too.
​
Georgia

Code

The Georgia State Minimum Standard Electrical Code consists of the 2005 National Electrical Code in conjunction with the 2005 Georgia Amendment. Some counties have adopted amendments to this code. Electrical installations are also subject to rules and regulations promulgated by the State Fire Marshal and the Insurance Commissioner.
Enforcement

There is no statewide electrical inspection. However, the Board is currently engaged in a program to encourage county and municipal authorities to require inspection of electrical work, where it is not currently inspected. The State Fire Marshall has broad powers to inspect buildings, though not specifically to perform electrical inspections. The Construction Industry Licensing Board, Electrical Division, has power to license or revoke, and to suspend or restore electrical contractor licenses.
Licensing

Contractor

Electrical contractors must be licensed by the Construction Industry Licensing Board, Electrical Division. An examination is required and licenses are issued to a person, not a firm. Renewal requires the contractor holding the license to complete four (4) hours of continuing education courses per year.
Journeyman Electrician

Journeymen employed by a licensed electrical contractor do not need a separate license. Low-Voltage Systems – Although a restricted low-voltage license is required for electrical contractors when doing such work exclusively from regular electrical wiring, low-voltage work may be done with an unrestricted, normal license when the low-voltage portion of the contract is incidental to the main electrical contract.
FeesLicenseExaminationRenewal Contractor$30.00$128.00$75.00/2yr Journeyman


Reciprocity

Alabama, Florida, North Carolina, and South Carolina
Contact


 
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