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Material Issue?

One of my customers called me today and told me they have an issue with a job I did six weeks ago. When he sent me the picture, I was stumped. I've never seen anything like this before...

image1 (14).JPG

Notice the brown discoloration on the white striping on the rear cab door. He said the exact same discoloration and pattern is also on the other back door on the other side of the truck. He didn't have a daytime picture, but he said it isn't nearly as noticeable during the day. It doesn't appear brown, but he said if you get it in the right light the rear door striping looks to be more of a matte or "pearl" finish than the bright glossy white. The following are pictures I took right after installation:

IMG_1263.JPG IMG_1257.JPG IMG_1239 (1).JPG IMG_1233.JPG IMG_1234.JPG

It may just be my eyes playing tricks on me, but now that I look at my night time pictures it looks like the back cab door striping may be slightly more dull. Everything on this truck came from one roll of 3M 680CR, the striping was cut and the lettering and upper striping was printed, laminated with 8518 and then cut. The truck was washed and then prepped with alcohol before installation, and it was done inside. This is the layout of how the striping was cut from the 30" roll:

atwell stripe layout.jpg

This was the white striping but I changed it to black so it would be visible on here, and for whatever reason the jpeg saved as red and black, but you get the idea. There were two of these cut to make up all of the striping on the whole truck. The two longer horizontal sections are the same length, and are either back cab doors or front cab doors. So it is possible that the two sections of striping on each rear cab door were cut beside each other on the roll, but its possible they were 4' apart on two different sections also. The other smaller piece at the bottom, which was for the forward section of the bed, is fine on both sides of the truck.

My Grimco rep is contacting 3M to see if they have any ideas, but I thought I would ask here too. I am going to replace the striping for them no matter what happened or who is at fault, I would just like to know what the cause of this is.
 

bannertime

Active Member
If they were cut from the same roll, maybe it has to do with a strip being flipped. As in the reflective beads are 180 degrees off from the rest of the strips. That'd be the only thing I think could be different between the other strips.... :help
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
After 6 weeks, I can't think of anything, unless you had used from a different roll. Otherwise, I'd ask if YOU personally put these stripes on and if you used any sort of a wet method anywhere under the reflective ??

The emblem above it, doesn't look as if it was affected. Could that particular door have been re-painted just before you did this ?? Most likely, that is something telegraphing through to the surface. Looks like mildew, which is what used to happen to Avery stuff, quite a bit.
 
After 6 weeks, I can't think of anything, unless you had used from a different roll. Otherwise, I'd ask if YOU personally put these stripes on and if you used any sort of a wet method anywhere under the reflective ??

The emblem above it, doesn't look as if it was affected. Could that particular door have been re-painted just before you did this ?? Most likely, that is something telegraphing through to the surface. Looks like mildew, which is what used to happen to Avery stuff, quite a bit.

That was my first thought too, something coming up through the material. I personally installed this, I do all of my own installs and I am very meticulous about it. I never do wet installs, this was all put on dry. The truck is brand new, it was maybe a few weeks old when I did the install. I cleaned it thoroughly with alcohol like I always do. The weirdest part is the same door on the other side of the truck has the same problem.
 
If they were cut from the same roll, maybe it has to do with a strip being flipped. As in the reflective beads are 180 degrees off from the rest of the strips. That'd be the only thing I think could be different between the other strips.... :help

With some older reflective I have seen what you are talking about where it may show up slightly differently if rotated 90 degrees, but 680CR has never been like that. If you look close you can see where its not the whole stripe, just about 50-75% of it is discolored when reflecting. It is definitely weird.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
I've never seen this either, especially with 680 CR. I'm guessing something funny in the paint/finish of the truck migrating through the vinyl or something sprayed onto the vinyl after installation. I'm not thinking the vinyl, as it would be visible in your "just after install" photos if it was the vinyl. going to see it in person should help you determine the actual problem.
 
I've never seen this either, especially with 680 CR. I'm guessing something funny in the paint/finish of the truck migrating through the vinyl or something sprayed onto the vinyl after installation. I'm not thinking the vinyl, as it would be visible in your "just after install" photos if it was the vinyl. going to see it in person should help you determine the actual problem.

I wish I could go see it today so I could get a better look at it. I'm not thinking it was something that was sprayed on, because its the same door on both sides and it stops abruptly at the gap between the doors. But the more I think about it being something in the paint, the more questions I have. I'm not expert on how trucks are made, but I'm fairly sure the doors are hung on a track and run through an automated spray booth, the whole truck isn't painted at one time. If that is the case, it would be reasonable to believe that the two back cab doors could have been sprayed side by side at the same time, and have something in/on them that the rest of the truck doesn't have. But now the big question... has anyone seen anything happen in a paint process that would cause this to happen to vinyl?
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Well, I think the bigger question would be..... if you remove it and do it over, what's gonna prevent it from happening in another 6 weeks ?? I would put a piece on and see what happens. It didn't happen the the emblem, so evidently it's something on the bottom portion of the door.


Ya know, I've often seen where when you have these kinda doors, people will get out along the highway/road and use one for cover while taking a leak. Maybe they missed and hit the truck. Wha..... it could happen :banghead:
 
Well, I think the bigger question would be..... if you remove it and do it over, what's gonna prevent it from happening in another 6 weeks ?? I would put a piece on and see what happens. It didn't happen the the emblem, so evidently it's something on the bottom portion of the door.


Ya know, I've often seen where when you have these kinda doors, people will get out along the highway/road and use one for cover while taking a leak. Maybe they missed and hit the truck. Wha..... it could happen :banghead:

Haha weird stuff like that does happen, and I would be much more willing to just call it an isolated odd incident if the same thing wasn't happening on the same door on the other side of the truck. That's the real head scratcher. The 3M rep has already called it bruising, which I know isn't the case because that doesn't even remotely look like bruising number one, and number two I did the install and laid that on perfectly flat the first try, I didn't pull back to re position it or stretch it.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Bruising my a$$. That's discoloration at it's finest.

By the way, other than that, nice job. Clean... and understated elegance.
 
Bruising my a$$. That's discoloration at it's finest.

By the way, other than that, nice job. Clean... and understated elegance.

Exactly what I said, I guess they are playing the usual game of not wanting to admit it may be something wrong with their material. But thank you sir, I am a firm believer in doing things how they used to be done on fire trucks. Everything on this job is 680CR reflective, even the "gold leaf". I used my special process that makes it look like hand laid gold. Some more pictures:

IMG_1249.JPG IMG_1251.JPG IMG_1255.JPG IMG_1256.JPG IMG_1268.JPG IMG_1281.JPG
 

Billct2

Active Member
Wow, that is weird. Does have a similar look to the Avery problems, but they looked "moldier" than that.I'm with the doors being the source of the issue.
 

Karen Souza

New Member
I agree with something about the doors. It could be possible that both doors were repainted for some reason. I'm seeing more
of that with new vehicles...you "find it out" when you clean!! Just don't know why there isn't a problem with the seal too! When you clean, do you give it some time to air dry after your cleaning process? Reflective can be really fussy about that. Frustrating not knowing.
 
I agree with something about the doors. It could be possible that both doors were repainted for some reason. I'm seeing more
of that with new vehicles...you "find it out" when you clean!! Just don't know why there isn't a problem with the seal too! When you clean, do you give it some time to air dry after your cleaning process? Reflective can be really fussy about that. Frustrating not knowing.

I always make sure everything is dry after I clean, and in this case it probably had at least 20-30 minutes to dry after it was cleaned. It's just crazy, I use 680CR all the time and do all my installs the same way. Never had this problem until now!
 

a77

New Member
If you wanted to be real safe on the redo, laminate the 680cr onto some cast vinyl first and then cut and place?
 

letterman7

New Member
I'd ask for a daylight photo or two. I can't see the 680 failing like that, and I've never had a paint "bleed" through that would affect the vinyl in such a fashion. It's remotely possible they cleaned the truck with something that affected only the back doors, but that's reaching.
 

S'N'S

New Member
I would go there in the dark and walk around it with a bright light, shine front to back, back to front, up, down to check if in deed the Reflective is flipped. Maybe it only looks as tho it goes half way because of the angle the pic was taken.
Also it not just the door...attached pic.
Regardless of how the truck was painted (individual pieces or complete) it would still be the same paint....and I can't see anything that would be able to come thru reflective vinyl, just don't think its possible.
 

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Gino

Premium Subscriber
Maybe he parked too close to a fire and the material burned...


Yeah, or maybe the mechanic was working on it underneath there and was grabbing with his dirty greasy hands and forgot to wipe his paw marks off afterwards. Wha.....?? It could happen. :tongue:
 
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