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Mesh banners tearing in wind

aerial

aerial

QCB
I install mesh banners for a local print shop at area schools. We were using 150 lb. zip ties to attach to a chain link fence, but when a few of the larger banners tore in a windstorm we switched to 50 lb. zip ties on top. Now the school is freaking out because the zip ties tore. Can't win. One school has insisted that we cut wind slits in a one year old banner before we put it back up.

The banners are taped 1" but not sewn, and I don't know what the mesh size is. The customer is tight lipped about where the banners are coming from, but I think Signs 365.

The customer is saying just do it. They want us to cut the banners on site. Any advise is greatly appreciated!
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
They want you to put slits in a material which has hundreds of holes in it already ?? What size are these things ??

If they won't tell ya where they're manufactured, I'd insist on having double sewn hems with nylon webbing in the hems with triple gusseted corners..... or they can instal their own crap.
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
So, you downgraded the zip ties because they held up too well?

You need to give more specifics.. how large of a banner? what are you attaching it to?

1 year old banner being subject to the wind sounds like it's had a long life. I tell my clients 1-2 years if it doesn't get damaged in a good wind.
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
Taped seams on any long term banner subjected to the wind are iffy at best. For long term mesh banners we have webbing sewn into the edges. Installing for other means you are only reaponsible for the quality of the install not the durability of the materials.
 
aerial

aerial

QCB
After a few banners were damaged in the wind, we started using 50 lb. ties on the top and half way down, as recommended by some banner manufactures. We used a name brand tie, but not USA made. Better to break a few ties than tear the banner. Most of the banners are on baseball diamonds, 40" high. The biggest problems are the tennis court banners at 6-7' high. One fell down in two weeks, breaking the 50 lb. ties.
So my question is, what is your standard method for attaching mesh banners to chain link fencing? I will pass along your advise on the hemming, Gino. Thank you.
 
aerial

aerial

QCB
Thanks for your replies! The schools are insisting on wind slits, and we have to comply, but we are refusing any responsibility for further damage.
 
petepaz

petepaz

New Member
banners are temporary and are not made to stand up to strong weather conditions...end of story. not your fault just the nature of the beast
wind slits in mesh banner may make it rip or tear even easier
 
Scotchbrite

Scotchbrite

No comment
You have to watch zipties for UV stability. It also seems like the white zipties don't hold up as well, not sure why that is but it's something I've observed.

Shoot, we tell people 6 months for banners.
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
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Like Jburton said, grommets every 1'.

You still never answered WHAT SIZE ARE THE BANNERS.
 
aerial

aerial

QCB
The banners that are tearing are on a tennis court, 116' x 9', in made in 4 pieces. Grommets every 2 feet. It was installed June 2021 with 150 lb. zip ties. It was supposed to be taken down over the winter, but wasn't. Some of the grommets tore out, and it tore along the hem. It was repaired at a local shop, by adding more tape and grommets, and we put it back up with black UV 50 lb. zip ties at the sign shop's request. Ties broke after 2 weeks. Now we are commanded to put wind slits in it and rehang. Thinking of having them put in grommets at every 1 foot. Might try 75lb. ties to meet in the middle. Going forward, I like the idea of a wind screen to back, but won't that make more wind load?

I did just read a piece that said not to tie to the top rail, which we did. May be tying to the fence will have more give.

Thanks to all.
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Just do what they are asking and charge them. Do not warranty the install whatsoever. Tell them these are not permanent signs and they are not even buying them from you.
 
10sacer

10sacer

New Member
I make my own bungees to match the available distance between the grommet and the attachment point.
 
P

pkeshtgani

New Member
Like people said before why would you put windslits in mesh banner.

We had issues scrim 13oz banner on fence and this was before mesh banner was a thing. And Ultraflexx send us this

“Wind Slits: Most banner materials are made of an inner scrim constructed of polyester fiber which gives the PVC film strength. The moment a banner is cut, the banner material is weakened. The reduction in wind resistance is minimal but the damage caused to the vinyl material is extensive. Wind slits can reduce wind resistance of a banner by 3%. If the size of the banner could be reduced by 3% the same reduction of wind resistance would be achieved without compromising the integrity of the banner. Consider utilizing mesh banner for enhanced air-flow to achieve up to 70% air-flow through.”

Once you put a wind slit you voiding the warranty completely.
 
Ian Stewart-Koster

Ian Stewart-Koster

Older Greyer Brushie
- 50 pound zip ties... that's about 20 kg, or a 5 gallon bucket full of horse feed.
I wouldn't own something that weak, let alone use that to hold a rosebush up...!
- Banner tape - I'm amazed that held up on mesh at all - that's wonderful. iI'd have thought that would fail first.
-slits, as explained above, cutting holes might only reduce the total area, subjected to load by a couple of percent of the area - the difference in wind resistance is negligible, but the difference to the banner's integrity is a lot.
- elastic or bungee cords are generally good
-so are better made banners. I wouldn't use anything less than double sewn hems.
 
P

ProSignTN

New Member
JBurton said:
Yeah, windslits are just a starting point for a tear.
I'd look at how often your grommets are spaced... more grommets should take load off any given point of failure, I do windscreen grommets on 12" centers top and bottom, less so left and right since they are only 40" tall I give them 3 per side.
One thing that's helped mine is they have a green mesh they put up, then they put the banners over that. Wind from the back hits the plain green mesh first, and doesn't put a lot of strain on my banners.
Click to expand...
That's why I get all the fence sign work for local schools that I can handle. Grommets , damn it. Twice the grommets, half the load. Four times the grommets, a quarter the load, wind that is. I use 12 grommets in any 4'x4' substrate, cora or banners for fence work. For Aluminum & ACM, I have used thru bolts, spaced accordingly, with over sized fender washers bent half moon to fasten to chain link. I have two, 4'x16' black aluminum "batter's eyes" on little league fields that have been on the same chain link fence for over 25 years. Bolts are rusted, black is chalked, but batter's eyes are still there.
 
P

ProSignTN

New Member
Ian Stewart-Koster said:
- 50 pound zip ties... that's about 20 kg, or a 5 gallon bucket full of horse feed.
I wouldn't own something that weak, let alone use that to hold a rosebush up...!
- Banner tape - I'm amazed that held up on mesh at all - that's wonderful. iI'd have thought that would fail first.
-slits, as explained above, cutting holes might only reduce the total area, subjected to load by a couple of percent of the area - the difference in wind resistance is negligible, but the difference to the banner's integrity is a lot.
- elastic or bungee cords are generally good
-so are better made banners. I wouldn't use anything less than double sewn hems.
Click to expand...
Agree with what you said, except for bungees. Bungees, never, ever.
 
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