Question Multi-Layered Printing?

[Boudica]

Got a project coming up, and I need to find out if it's possible to do multi-layered printing: color/white/color. Printing will be on clear - these are going in window panels. They want to see the graphic from both sides, but also want the graphics to be more opaque than just printing on clear.

My white ink capabilities are an HP Scitex FB550 and an Epson S80600. RIP is Onyx thrive

1. is this possible?
2. can anyone direct me on how to set this up?

Pease and Franks

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I don't know how you would align it or set it up but it should be possible. It'd be like a reverse print for a window, print color, flood white or laminate with white vinyl and then print over top of that for your second side... I think?

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Certainly possible on the S80600 with the right profile... just takes a lot longer than a normal print as you have to run it in a higher pass mode from memory.

See here:
https://signs101.com/threads/epson-s80600-white-printing-3-layers.158981

 

[WYLDGFI]

If you have White ink on your FB...it depends if you have 3 layer capabilities on it. I know on our AGFA printer we do multi layer all the time.

 

[Bly]

We do it all the time on our Arizona.
The simplest way is to just select the layered option in Onyx and select colour/white/colour option.
It's great for backlit prints.

 

[Val47]

If you have White ink on your FB...it depends if you have 3 layer capabilities on it. I know on our AGFA printer we do multi layer all the time.

My boss has been looking into an Agfa, to replace the HP we have now

 

[Val47]

We do it all the time on our Arizona.
The simplest way is to just select the layered option in Onyx and select colour/white/colour option.
It's great for backlit prints.

What version of Onyx? can you show me a screen shot of where that setting is?

 

[Bly]

Any version.
The profile is Quality Layered.
Once the file is ripped right click on the job > edit > printer settings > define layers > CMYK - White spot data OR White Flood - CMYK
If you pick white spot data then you need a Spot 1 layer in the file with overprint turned on.

 

[Val47]

I don't know how you would align it or set it up but it should be possible. It'd be like a reverse print for a window, print color, flood white or laminate with white vinyl and then print over top of that for your second side... I think?

but, the area between the graphics needs to be clear. It's for a Library, I haven't seen the artwork yet, but my understanding is a bunch of floating graphics - books, worms, emojies... don't know, but they have artwork floating around, and contour cut graphics won't work. It's got to be solid vinyl install (clear on the in-betweens), and the graphics are two sided, but opaque. So... color/white/ color - in AREAS/Spots. The rest is clear. but not necessarily optically clear. that part isn't my problem/task at hand. I need to figure out how to produce it.

 

[Val47]

Any version.
The profile is Quality Layered.
Once the file is ripped right click on the job > edit > printer settings > define layers > CMYK - White spot data OR White Flood - CMYK
If you pick white spot data then you need a Spot 1 layer in the file with overprint turned on.

Thanks Bly! So, in setting up the artwork... do I need two layers of color? I know how to set-up white flood, but sandwiching the white layer is where I need the most help

Edit: is that part included with this "Quality Layered" profile? ...don't believe I have it, and how do I get it?

 

[Bly]

Thanks Bly! So, in setting up the artwork... do I need two layers of color? I know how to set-up white flood, but sandwiching the white layer is where I need the most help

Edit: is that part included with this "Quality Layered" profile? ...don't believe I have it, and how do I get it?

No it just uses the same data for both layers.
If you don't have that profile for your white ink printer then maybe the printer doesn't support it.
Best check with your rip vendor or company it guy.

 

[Val47]

No it just uses the same data for both layers.
If you don't have that profile for your white ink printer then maybe the printer doesn't support it.
Best check with your rip vendor or company it guy.

So... do you think this is a profile I could find for the Espon? You mentioned a different printer earlier. I know that I don't have all the same options with every printer I have installed in Onyx...

 

[Bly]

So... do you think this is a profile I could find for the Espon? You mentioned a different printer earlier. I know that I don't have all the same options with every printer I have installed in Onyx...

We don't have white in our Epson.
Someone else here should be able to help with that.

 

[Val47]

K, Thanks for your input! Not at work right now, but I will look into the settings tomorrow, and that profile.

 

[signheremd]

Another option, if you don't have the ability to print color/white/color, is to print color with white, then send a second file to print color only. We used to print on glass all the time on our old CET and would send one file with color and a spot color, printing as overspot to leave clear areas in some sections. Then we would send over another file with the same dimensions but color only where it was needed and print with white off (Not Print). With Onyx 21 and our new FluidColor printer we can print all three layers at once. Hope that gives you an idea of how to get around if you can't send all three layers

 

[Boudica]

Another option, if you don't have the ability to print color/white/color, is to print color with white, then send a second file to print color only. We used to print on glass all the time on our old CET and would send one file with color and a spot color, printing as overspot to leave clear areas in some sections. Then we would send over another file with the same dimensions but color only where it was needed and print with white off (Not Print). With Onyx 21 and our new FluidColor printer we can print all three layers at once. Hope that gives you an idea of how to get around if you can't send all three layers

How did you register the second color pass so it would print in the right place?
I guess I could use the marks and line it up like I do with double sided banners, without flipping the media over.

 

[Boudica]

new question - did you laminate those projects? We are wondering how it would work to cure and laminate 3 layers of ink...

 

[signheremd]

How did you register the second color pass so it would print in the right place?
I guess I could use the marks and line it up like I do with double sided banners, without flipping the media over.

We size the media to the finished substrate size - example 24x36 - and print. The second printing is sized to media size also of 24x36 but with color only located where it is needed. We use a contour cut for the not printing substrate size (so no fill no stroke) as neither our old nor our new flatbeds print the contour cut. We leave the piece on the machine and simply run the second file.

new question - did you laminate those projects? We are wondering how it would work to cure and laminate 3 layers of ink...

We do not laminate these - they are reverse printed on glass in this case. But as long as the ink is dry you can laminate 3 layers of ink in our experience.

 

[WYLDGFI]

The FB550 doesn't print in-line 3 layers???

 

[Boudica]

The FB550 doesn't print in-line 3 layers???

I don't know yet... my query has lead me in the direction of the Epson, but my boss thinks it would be more achievable on the FB.
Tell me what you know....