Mutoh 1304 not printing at all - please help

[catldavis]

Hello all,

I recently purchased a Mutoh 1304 that isn't printing any colors with a nozzle check. I mean there is no ink out of any nozzle. I changed the maintenance station thinking it was the pump but that didn't help at all. I've checked past posts but really couldn't find any posts where there is no ink coming out. I'm very new at solvent ink printers so really don't know where to go at this point. Is there a way to check if ink is actually getting to the head?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Clay

 

[heyskull]

If their is no ink been pulled through the pump and the head to capping station seal is good.
The only way to see if their is ink getting to the head is to pull the dampers from the manifold and see if you can pull the ink through them.
If the machine has been left unused for some time the head will be blocked with dried up ink and will be needing replaced.
Then even after installing a new head, head cables and dampers you should be good to go.... all dependent their was no other issues with the machine when last used.

SC

 

[catldavis]

Thanks SC. The guy I bought it from said it quit working so he replaced the head (I guess thinking it was dried up). That still didn't get it working so he decided to quit worry about it and upgraded to latex. Therefore, if what he is saying is true, the head should not have had any ink in it. The machine gives a "bad pump" error upon starting so he thought it may be the maintenance station (my thoughts as well). However, I've changed that so unless the new one is bad, it's not the station.

I did find some other threads about somewhat of a similar issue. Like you, they say to try and pull ink through the dampers. I will try that today.

Is there a way to tell if ink is getting to the capping station? What are the access points that allow me to see where the ink is dropping out?

Another unrelated but maybe related issue, I can't get this thing to go in to maintenance mode to reset the pump counter. I power it off and hold down the < button, > button and - button and then restart it, and it starts as normal. It gives me the 1304 screen, the version 1.06 screen and then the bad pump screen. and then proceeds to measure the vinyl. I thought this was rather odd.

 

[thesignworks]

hello

can you hear the pump running?

is it struggling or real easy

is teh side cover still off?

if so put a syringe on the cap top outlet whilast the head is on it and pull
you will deffo know one way or the other if the headis rock solid with dry ink - massive resistance

or there will be a whistling of air through the gauze = bad cap seal.

on a side note all head manifolds have filters in them.
the intakes - about 3 tiny holes are pin head size
the dampers also have filters in them.

so, suck all the old ink out from the top, dribble in some cleaner
soak the head on a j-cloth square covering the cap, then hope they meet.

don't what ever you do try and force 'even air' through a rock solid head as you will split it.

do you have nothing at all on the new cap top pad?

 

[catldavis]

All good questions thesignworks. You can hear the pump but it sounds like it is straining to me. However, I have no experience with these machines so it could be the normal sound of the unit. Here's a video of it going through a cleaning cycle and you can hear the pump:

[video=vimeo;115720036]http://vimeo.com/115720036[/video]

Is this the line to try to pull ink through?:

The capping station is as dry as a powder house so I would be shocked if anything comes out. The previous capping station was dry also when I replaced the maintenance station.

Now, the previous owner said the head is brand new and he could never get ink to it. Of course, he could have been telling me a fib.

How can I check to see if ink is getting to the dampers? If it's not getting to the dampers, what is the next access point to check to see if ink is there?

Any/all help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Solventinkjet]

It looks like ink had never made it through the new maintenance station after you installed it. The first thing you want to do is take the head cover off and check to see if there is ink in the ink lines and dampers.

If they are empty, either the maintenance station is not sealing with the head properly, the head is not new and completely clogged or the machine was completely empty before you changed the maintenance station and you didn't run the ink fill up procedure/the pump hasn't run enough cycles to pull ink from the cartridge to the head. Check the ink lines all the way through the machine. If they are mostly empty, you probably just need to run the fill up cycle. (Note: If the fill up cycle doesn't move the ink at all, read below)

If there is ink in the ink lines and dampers or the ink doesn't move when you run a fill up cycle, the head is completely clogged or the maintenance station is not sealing up with the head properly.

In either case I would hook up a syringe to the waste ink lines. (Note: You either have to use 2 syringes, 1 per waste tube, or use 1 syringe and plug the second tube for this to work or else you will just pull air no matter what.)

With the head capped, pull the syringe plunger down. You should feel resistance and if you let go of the syringe plunger, it should snap back. If you feel that you are getting good suction, hold the plunger down until you see ink flow into the syringe.

If you pull the syringe and then let it go but it doesn't snap back and/or you hear a hissing sound coming from the head area, you have air getting into the system. Usually the air is coming from a bad seal between the head and the cap top. Try wetting the cap top down with cleaning solution to get a good initial seal and try again.

If you pull the syringe and get a lot of resistance and it snaps back when you let it go but no ink comes into the syringe when you hold it for a while, your head is completely clogged and you may be able to recover it but it is unlikely.

 

[catldavis]

Thanks VanderJ. I decided to try to see if the dampers have ink. There weren't any covers on the head (probably not a good sign) so it was a quick process. The dampers all had ink in them:

I thought this was a very good sign. As I was putting the dampers back on, one of the magenta dampers didn't seem to want to seat. I took the dampers out again and one of the magenta nipples on the manifold appears to be totally eaten away:

So I obviously I need a new manifold. Is there a way to check the head while it is out? Or, should I assume it is okay? If I assume it is okay, how can I keep it from drying out as I await a new manifold?

Any help is greatly appreciated..

 

[Solventinkjet]

Just keep the head capped while you wait. You can still try to pull ink down through the maintenance station to test it but you may want to wait until the manifold comes in.

Also, check that the print head is parallel with the platen. It is common to see the head slanted, when someone who isn't familiar with working on the machine, installs the head and does not get the head pushed all the way down into the proper position which would make it so that the head doesn't touch the cap top properly.

PS. I forgot on the 1304 there is no main head cover. Just the damper holder that holds the dampers down. You should be good in the regard.

 

[heyskull]

I think you have found the problem and I would agree with vanders comments about the head not being pushed down properly.
As the main issue with the cleaning system is that it has a good seal.
Looking at the way this head has been installed and the damaged manifold I would question the maintenance of this machine.

SC

 

[catldavis]

Thanks again for the information and guidance. The head was askew when I removed it.

Since the capping station is dry, should I put a little bit of cleaning solution on a cloth prior to seating the head on it?

You are correct about the maintenance heyskull. I'm new to solvent printers so I really didn't know what to look for. I know that these Valuejets are pretty durable so I'm hoping once I get it going I'll be able to start reversing some of the deferred maintenance. I'm certainly learning a lot and what to look for the next time I make a purchase.

 

[thesignworks]

Thanks again for the information and guidance. The head was askew when I removed it.

Since the capping station is dry, should I put a little bit of cleaning solution on a cloth prior to seating the head on it?

You are correct about the maintenance heyskull. I'm new to solvent printers so I really didn't know what to look for. I know that these Valuejets are pretty durable so I'm hoping once I get it going I'll be able to start reversing some of the deferred maintenance. I'm certainly learning a lot and what to look for the next time I make a purchase.

hello again
STOP

first ascertain that you don't have a water based manifold on that head
are the nipples soft and wobbly? - if so its a waterbased manifold
I hope it is that simple and that the inlets on that manifold have softened and closed up, as its a cheap fix
can you suck anything out of them

simply pull onm th eoutlet lines a as if its easy the head isn't seated

i think when its buzzing its pulling on the head - sounds a bit lazy

when it sounds like the pump is whizzing - its merely clearing the lines 'with nothing oin them' - I could be totally wrong here though and the pump then sounds like its pulling air and the head isn't on the cap-top.

I thought the buzz was the head electronically rattling the crystals 'firing them all' while the pump is on.

 

[catldavis]

The nipples are hard and sharp. All look good but the one that is sheared off. It sounds like the best thing to do is put the head and current manifold back in and seat it over the capping station until the new manifold comes in.

 

[thesignworks]

hello

can you suck anything up through the head?
-i mean 'air'
if not sit it on a millimeter of solvent cleaner for half an hour any try again

then do the simply test to see if you have maybe fixed the seal from head to head capping

i.e. you may put it all back together and it may start sucking

i'd put a little solvent cleaner into the dampers

you may have a bad seal, and a dried out clogged head - from sitting idle.

when you place the head down on a solvent soaked j-cloth, at least you can guage if any ink has reached the nozzles

 

[catldavis]

I can pull air through the manifold/head (I make it look clumsy but it wasn't hard to pull air through):

[video=vimeo;115736303]http://vimeo.com/115736303[/video]

It would be great if it is just the head wasn't seated correctly (and needing a new manifold).

 

[thesignworks]

hello

at the rate of which you can pull air through that head with a 10ml syringe 'to me' denotes a new head totally clear, thats good news in so much as there is nothing in it, so wait for the new manifold ...20 days!!
IF you put it all back together how on earth will you be able to stop yourself wanting to check the cap seal, then filling it with ink

just to clarify - you have a new captop

If you have refillable carts, you have the air bleed holes open.

also, I feel your pain with regards the 1/2 millimeter your head cap was off not sealing, as I am in the exact same predicament as yourself.

though my cap was sealing, the head was good 'bar the cyan' on running it with water based ink I left it out for 10 days and it clogged up, after fitting a solvent manifold, solvent dampers, solvent o-rings and metal nuts and a solvent wiper, then filling it with solvent ink, the head was starting to come back, then the seal was lost after I wiped it over with solvent cleaner 'I think' I did buy a solvent head cap, but the wrong one..........

I also looks like the waste lines on the value jets is the same stuff as the stock epson stuff, so it must be solvent proof and I needn't have had the pump apart.
waiting on parts sucks

If it were me and it were new years day, i'd run that manifold 'if it sealed',

its always the cap top, and its tough as because you cannot see it, you presume its sealing, the only way to tell is by pulling on the waste lines- but as you have had the head off and its clear, it 'should have worked'

oh and lastly, is the broken bit of manifold still in the magenta damper asyou might bust the new manifold forcing it on

 

[catldavis]

I was pretty excited when I was able to pull air through the head so well. Maybe the previous owner was telling the truth about it being a brand new head that he could never get ink through. Even if it is not brand new, I suspect it is almost brand new.

I think I'm going to wait for the new manifold before trying it again. When I tried to pull through the broken nipple, it wouldn't seal. When I looked at the bottom of the damper, the O ring is turned sideways. I have a couple of new dampers that I will put in it. As I think I mentioned, when I pulled the head out it was slightly askew. I suspect what the previous owner thought was a bad maintenance station was actually the head not sealing against the cap (fingers crossed). The maintenance station I have I purchased from Rat Fink on here and he said he only had it in for half a day (the cap is still showing some white). Even then, I have a brand new cap if needed.

Should I try to pull some cleaner through the head just in case there is some ink in the head? I'm more familiar with the DTG printer world and every once in a while you have to try and reclaim the heads. When we do try to reclaim them, we use a homemade container (DO NOT TRY THIS WITHOUT ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS AS IT CAN FRY THE HEAD) like this:

We use a mixture of Original Windex cut 50/50 with distilled water (that's what is in the above container). You can also use A solution made from 80% distilled water, 10% Ethylene Glycol, 10% Propylene Glycol, by weight. Do you use a manufactured cleaning solution?

 

[thesignworks]

hello

have you got some solvent cleaner yet?

amonia i don't think will clean solvent ink, nor dileminie

what you now have to do is work out the formula for solvent cleaner!!!

toil and trouble......



.

 

[catldavis]

Not much to work out since artbot was kind enough to do all the work for us: butyl carbitol mixed with acetone (4 parts BC two parts acetone)

The search begins tomorrow to see if any of the local Sherwin Williams stores can get it. If not, I'll contact a cabinet builder friend I have for a favor.

 

[thesignworks]

Not much to work out since artbot was kind enough to do all the work for us: butyl carbitol mixed with acetone (4 parts BC two parts acetone)

The search begins tomorrow to see if any of the local Sherwin Williams stores can get it. If not, I'll contact a cabinet builder friend I have for a favor.

cripes!
you'll be blending your own ink next....
$2 a gallon

so where do you get DIETHYLENE GLYCOL BUTYL ETHER
is it brake fluid or antifreeze,
DIETHYLENE GLYCOL BUTYL ETHER

 

[catldavis]

You can get it in small amounts on Ebay. However, you would need to buy it in larger quantities for it to be financially feasible. You would most likely get it from an industrial or commercial paint or chemical supply company (like Sherwin Williams).