Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Mutoh 1304 VS Roland VP540

Discussion in 'Mutoh' started by ykapadia, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. ykapadia

    ykapadia New Member

    24
    0
    0
    Feb 20, 2008
    Updated below :
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
    Tags:
  2. ykapadia

    ykapadia New Member

    24
    0
    0
    Feb 20, 2008
    Mutoh 1304 VS Roland VP540

    I want to purchase a Print/Cut solution and was very confident of purchasing Roland VP 540 until I saw the following and also read about new wave print technology that Mutoh has :
    [​IMG]

    From this Video I gathered that for small stickers (approx 2" x 3") the Roland VP 540 would be too slow hence I would not be able to print x many stickers per working day to make it viable. In case of Mutoh I can see this happening.

    On the same node I feel for larger decals, VP540 is appropriate.
    1. I am planing to print 2"x 3" stickers. i.e 200 stickers per customer at a very affordable pricing.
    2. Has anyone done a comparison on this ?
    3. I know for certain that Roland Machines are very durable. What about Mutoh machines ?
     
  3. high impact

    high impact Very Active Member

    Buy one of each and then ship me the one you don't like.
     
  4. paul123

    paul123 Member

    28
    0
    0
    Feb 6, 2008
    If you are going to be printing that size sticker on a regular basis, have you considered screen printing (out sourced)
    I am in the same boat with these machines, consider that you will upgrade you digital printer far sooner than your cutter. I'm sure Mutoh will have an even faster / wider machine at the lower price much sooner. As your work load increases you may wish to run 2 printers and one cutter.
     
  5. Neil

    Neil Member

    334
    11
    18
    Aug 25, 2005
    Adelaide, South Australia
    I just found this thread and viewed the Sign Myth Breakers thing.
    It was a well done video but when you look a bit deeper things aren't quite so one sided.

    For instance, when you send the job to the Versacamm you can leave it unattended from start to finish.
    Go and make some signs, do some quotes, layouts, mow the lawn... whatever.
    So the total user time is just minutes - the printer does the rest and you come back to a finished job.

    With the Mutoh however our lab technician has to be on hand the whole time - finding his scissors to cut off the sheet each time (what the?), loading & unloading, re-sending the job to the printer, re-sending the job to the cutter.

    So they may boast it was hours quicker using the 2 separate machines but really that's just a...Myth.
    And I consider that myth...Busted!

    Also for the curious out there - have a look at the actual print samples at the bottom of the page. Open them side by side. (Not the 360dpi one because no-one would use that res for that size)

    The Versacamm ones show the true colors.
    What's going on with the Mutoh profile?
    There's no green anymore, the gradient under the ice is stripey, the black fade around the edge is terrible!

    Coke would've rejected them for sure.

    Disclaimer - I don't own either machine but am considering between the 2 (VP-540 and VJ-1304)

    After what I've just seen, the VP is winning.
     
  6. Rollie

    Rollie Very Active Member

    1,651
    0
    36
    Dec 20, 2007
    Ontario Canada
    Not sure but I thing this video is more of a myth Maker than Breaker.

    I think each system has strengths and weaknesses but I think it would be cool to have one of each.
     
  7. randya

    randya Very Active Member

    2,060
    3
    38
    Apr 6, 2007
    Arizona

    This video is of a Mutoh PrismJET Extra C, this is not a ValueJet 1304.
    The PrismJET Extra C prints 720x720 dpi at approx 40 sq.ft./hour, the 1304 prints 720x 720 at 145 sq.ft. hour and has the "Wave".

    Here is the 1604:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijcpUIlB9-4
     
  8. randya

    randya Very Active Member

    2,060
    3
    38
    Apr 6, 2007
    Arizona
    "So they may boast it was hours quicker using the 2 separate machines but really that's just a...Myth.
    And I consider that myth...Busted!"


    Sorry, but I am missing this, where have you demonstrated that it is not quicker on two machines?
    You say that it takes more interaction but I dont see where you busted the 'myth' on capability.

    Of course each system has its strengths and weaknesses. Each system has been designed for different segments of the market, and each has it's place.

    Comparing Speed is one issue, comparing 'profiles' is another issue that is not related to speed or the machine itself.

    While the PrismJET Extra C in the video is a Mutoh, it is not a ValueJet. the PrismJET Extra C prints 720x720 dpi at about 40 sq.ft./hour and does not have the Intelligent Interweaving technology while the ValueJet prints 720x720 dpi at 145 sq.ft/hour with the wave.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  9. synergy_jim

    synergy_jim Very Active Member

    roland

    I have owned an sp300, soljet, and now have the new XC-540

    The shop i used to work at had mutoh....

    In my honest opinion, rolands craftsmanship and workability is second to none.

    The mutoh I used was broken more that anything I have ever seen.

    I recommend roland, but my bad experience with mutoh doesn't mean that all of them are junk.
     
  10. Graphics2u

    Graphics2u Very Active Member

    1,839
    2
    38
    Jan 31, 2007
    Iowa
    2 Machines for me!

    I'll stand by that two machines are faster any day! for one thing how many of you laminate your prints??? Cheap decals might be one thing but anything of decent quality should be laminated. If you laminate the whole idea of a print and cut machine in one is thrown out the window because you need to remove the print then laminate then cut. Which means your registering the print again to cut. You might as well be doing that on a separate cutter and putting your printer back to the job it's made for - printing the next batch.

    I print alot of 2' x 3' logos for schools all over the country, and I can print 30', 40' 50' or more feet of material at a time (you have to have a take up reel) then laminate the entire thing at once then roll it up put it into my Mutoh Ultima cutter and contour cut the entire thing while my Falcon II Outdoor is spitting out the next 50' of vinyl!

    If you have never seen the way a Mutoh Ultima Cutter's registration system works, you would be amazed. A monkey could run it! And I'm living proof!

    There is no way in my book that a all in one machine could output the same amount or even close. That being said I think All in one machines have certain advantages that shouldn't be overlooked and Roland definitely builds Quality equipment!

    But people who complain about Mutoh's being junk obviously have had issues in the past and by no means is the general opinion of Mutoh Owners. There were some flaws with pumps and capping stations on the Falcons( I know I had one). As far as the Valuejet line it seem to be much less problematic in these areas. My Falcon II is a great machine.

    It all comes down to what you are satisfied with, and what gets the job done for you. For instance I WILL NEVER buy another HP product as long as I live, whether desktop printer or HP9000. But other people swear by them!

    So go figure!
     
  11. Neil

    Neil Member

    334
    11
    18
    Aug 25, 2005
    Adelaide, South Australia
    My point being it may have been quicker by a few hours in actual time, but the Roland guy was off doing other jobs all the while the Mutoh was being attended to.

    In fact he could have scheduled the VP to run overnight, thereby making any speed claims redundant.

    I'm just making a point that counters their claim - I don't think it matters much whichever way you do it.
    I print and cut on seperate machines now.

    As Graphics2U says, when you have to laminate in between, then the advantage of a printer/cutter is lost.



    No, but they are comparing the finished output.
    They put up samples of the finished prints presumably to show the quality of the Mutoh prints comapared to the quality of the VP.

    I think they forgot to look beyond the 720dpi rez and look at the actual printed image. It's shockingly bad.
    Certainly unsellable.
    Which begs the question - how can Mutoh get it to look so bad?
    It's not hard to properly profile a machine - I do it myself and get perfect colors and gradations.

    So it leads me to believe they are either not even trying to provide usable profiles with their machines, or their machine/rip combos are incapable of being profiled.

    It's not the first time I've been lead to assume this either - after seeing a demo of the VJ-1204 I came away unimpressed by the colors. And the distinct lack of reds in their printed color swatches.

    I'd like to be proven wrong here. Seriously.

    I like the VJ1304 for it's compactness and speed. And I already have a Graphtec 7000 cutter with Reg mark sensor.
    But I've yet to see a print sample from one that I would call good.

    RandyA do you make your own profiles for these machines?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  12. Graphix Plus Ink

    Graphix Plus Ink Member

    223
    0
    0
    Mar 11, 2007
    Print and cut combo are merely for convience. I couldn't imaging unloading a print to cut on a different machine, To much margin on error. I prefer to just press one button ang goooooooooooooooooooooo
     
  13. randya

    randya Very Active Member

    2,060
    3
    38
    Apr 6, 2007
    Arizona

    I appreciate your point and as I said, it is a valid one, but it did not counter the claims of productivity made by the video.


    Mutoh did not make the video. I believe it was a reseller.


    Get ahold of your local Mutoh dealer, send them your image and request a sample print. If you are still unsatisfied, submit them to Mutoh and we will run a sample for you.

    Considering that both machines use the same ink set, the difference in 'reds' are strickly profile related.

    The ValueJets use the latest Epson single 8 channel head design with the smaller droplet size keeping the alignment between colors more stable and easier to set up and control.

    We do make some profiles here, and I do make an occasional profile myself.

    We are an open source printer company.
    We are supported by Onyx, SAI, Wasatch, Cadlink, Caldera, ErgoSoft and others, as well a most of the media manufacturers for outdoor media.

    With all the changes in OS, RIPS and media, we do not have the capacity to support all of these, so as a rule we dont supply 'profiles' for all these rips and medias.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  14. Neil

    Neil Member

    334
    11
    18
    Aug 25, 2005
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Thanks for the replies Randy.

    As I said I do like the specs on the VJ1304 machine. It's compact (nearly 18" less width than the VP 540), it's quiet, practically odourless and seriously fast.
    The profiling I can get around by making my own for use with Signlab, so I would expect to get at least the quality that I'm getting now.

    I spoke to a dealer here in Australia recently and the price pretty much on par with $US so that's all good.

    I'll do as you say and send them a couple of reference files to print and send to me.
     
  15. randya

    randya Very Active Member

    2,060
    3
    38
    Apr 6, 2007
    Arizona
    What's important is that you get the best fit for your business model. It is good to 'kick the tires' and see some results from the type of work you normally do, balance that with the financial commitment and make the best choice that you can.

    Cadlink has been to our facility and made profiles for the 1204/1304/1604/1614 printers (these all use the same profiles), and they are here for the next two weeks making some profiles for some of our other models.

    Good luck.
     
  16. eforer

    eforer Active Member

    526
    1
    18
    Nov 2, 2006
    If you ever plan on laminating anything, a print/cut machine is a waste of time. You'll have to re-load it anyways after lam. Then you are stuck with a slow printer, a slow cutter and you can't do both simultaneously. Contour cutting is a breeze with a quality cutter.

    2 machines FTW. BTW, I'll agree with the above posts about the older Mutohs (falcon jr's) etc. sucking it up in the quality department. The newer VJ printers are pretty smokin' though and the build quality is very good. I still take Mimaki for the winner in the quality category, but the new Mutohs are much better than the old one's and quite good.
     
  17. Flipburger

    Flipburger New Member

    2
    0
    0
    May 29, 2009
    I've used both and can tell you the single machine solution (the VP-540 print/cut hybrid in this case) is pure win in real world conditions.

    I (and nobody I know) has time to babysit the printer while it works and having to load the media into another machine to cut it is a huge waste of time and floor space. When we replaced our Mutohs with a Roland hybrid we actually thought we might be doing something wrong because it was so quick and easy. There really is no contest between the two... I'd fist fight someone over my VP-540. I never said that about our Mutohs :D

    Also, as mentioned above the print is much "cleaner" on the Roland. No overspray at all and the colors are fantastic. Mutohs are cheaper of course but in this industry you already know you get what you pay for.

    Normally I don't get into these vs. threads but since I've used both I felt like I'd toss in my 2 cents worth.
     
  18. gnemmas

    gnemmas Active Member

    856
    20
    18
    Nov 7, 2006
    CA
    You means Roland came out with Print, Laminate, and Cut all in one printer?
     
  19. ykapadia

    ykapadia New Member

    24
    0
    0
    Feb 20, 2008
    Rolands are definitely very good machines
     
  20. anotherdog

    anotherdog Very Active Member

    1,191
    0
    0
    Sep 6, 2008
    frankly for this job both are the wrong machine.
    You want to outsource to a digital offset printer like the Indigo range.
    They would eat a job like this.
    I don't know what they would retail the job at, but print cost per square foot would be 20-40 cents. lamination would add to the cost if it was needed at all (indigo inks are tough).

    When all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...