Mutoh 1324X 54 or MIMAKI JV-150-130 54"

[NazGraphics]

hello all
time to get a new printer
any recommendations cons. pros
between this printers

thanks

 

[FatCat]

We've had nothing but Mutohs in our shop since I opened in 2009. That said, I would strongly suggest looking at the 1624x instead of the 1324x. Both have basically same head, same print quality but when I had a 1304 I found that even though it was a 54" printer, some 54" rolls would not fit. Mostly due to the cardboard tube being 1/2" longer - and yes, it wouldn't fit unless you cut it down with a saw. That and the ability to print 64" and thus 5' banners more than makes up for the couple grand difference in price over the course of several years on the 1624x.

Mimaki also makes great machines - haven't owned or operated one, but I know they have a reputation for being well built and durable. I wouldn't hesitate to get a Mimaki either...but I think I'd still lean towards getting the 64" model just for being able to do 5' banners.

 

[Solventinkjet]

They are essentially the same machine when it comes down to the major specs which makes sense because they both use the same exact head. So speed and quality are the same.

Mutoh 1324 Pros:

Good customer service directly from Mutoh and most Dealers
Connects via Ethernet
Sturdy take up system

Mutoh 1324 Cons:

More Expensive and Complicated Maintenance Station
Loading the media is cumbersome
220ml Ink Cartridges are technically the only size cartridge you are supposed to use but you can still use 440ml but it usually will leave a fair amount of ink in the cartridge when it says it's empty.

Mimaki JV150 Pros:

Simple Media Loading
Has Nozzle Replacement which means if a nozzle is not recoverable and won't fire, the machine will fire another nozzle in it's place. This makes the head last longer.
The MAPS technology makes a really smooth print without banding
Maintenance parts are easier to install and cheaper

Mimaki JV150 Cons:

The tech support is as good as your local tech is which can be hit or miss. Mimaki direct support is not as good as Mutoh.
Only Connects via USB
Less robust take-up system which can cause media feed issues if not calibrated correctly.
Inks smell a little more than the Mutoh inks

 

[BigfishDM]

hello all
time to get a new printer
any recommendations cons. pros
between this printers

thanks

What are the main applications you want to do? Have you considered Latex at all?

 

[NazGraphics]

We've had nothing but Mutohs in our shop since I opened in 2009. That said, I would strongly suggest looking at the 1624x instead of the 1324x. Both have basically same head, same print quality but when I had a 1304 I found that even though it was a 54" printer, some 54" rolls would not fit. Mostly due to the cardboard tube being 1/2" longer - and yes, it wouldn't fit unless you cut it down with a saw. That and the ability to print 64" and thus 5' banners more than makes up for the couple grand difference in price over the course of several years on the 1624x.

Mimaki also makes great machines - haven't owned or operated one, but I know they have a reputation for being well built and durable. I wouldn't hesitate to get a Mimaki either...but I think I'd still lean towards getting the 64" model just for being able to do 5' banners.

thanks for the info we are ruining 2 mutoh 1204 for the past 15 years and we never had any big issues its a good printer wanted to try something fancy looking like the mimkie lol some how all my prints are 38 inches or small
thank you

 

[NazGraphics]

They are essentially the same machine when it comes down to the major specs which makes sense because they both use the same exact head. So speed and quality are the same.

Mutoh 1324 Pros:

Good customer service directly from Mutoh and most Dealers
Connects via Ethernet
Sturdy take up system

Mutoh 1324 Cons:

More Expensive and Complicated Maintenance Station
Loading the media is cumbersome
220ml Ink Cartridges are technically the only size cartridge you are supposed to use but you can still use 440ml but it usually will leave a fair amount of ink in the cartridge when it says it's empty.

Mimaki JV150 Pros:

Simple Media Loading
Has Nozzle Replacement which means if a nozzle is not recoverable and won't fire, the machine will fire another nozzle in it's place. This makes the head last longer.
The MAPS technology makes a really smooth print without banding
Maintenance parts are easier to install and cheaper

Mimaki JV150 Cons:

The tech support is as good as your local tech is which can be hit or miss. Mimaki direct support is not as good as Mutoh.
Only Connects via USB
Less robust take-up system which can cause media feed issues if not calibrated correctly.
Inks smell a little more than the Mutoh inks

They are essentially the same machine when it comes down to the major specs which makes sense because they both use the same exact head. So speed and quality are the same.

Mutoh 1324 Pros:

Good customer service directly from Mutoh and most Dealers
Connects via Ethernet
Sturdy take up system

Mutoh 1324 Cons:

More Expensive and Complicated Maintenance Station
Loading the media is cumbersome
220ml Ink Cartridges are technically the only size cartridge you are supposed to use but you can still use 440ml but it usually will leave a fair amount of ink in the cartridge when it says it's empty.

Mimaki JV150 Pros:

Simple Media Loading
Has Nozzle Replacement which means if a nozzle is not recoverable and won't fire, the machine will fire another nozzle in it's place. This makes the head last longer.
The MAPS technology makes a really smooth print without banding
Maintenance parts are easier to install and cheaper

Mimaki JV150 Cons:

The tech support is as good as your local tech is which can be hit or miss. Mimaki direct support is not as good as Mutoh.
Only Connects via USB
Less robust take-up system which can cause media feed issues if not calibrated correctly.
Inks smell a little more than the Mutoh inks

thanks for the info
this week i will go see a mimaki in person

 

[NazGraphics]

What are the main applications you want to do? Have you considered Latex at all?

the main print we do is banners posters decals vinyl wrap

i compared latex print to eco solvent out door use on a banner
the banner that was printed on latex lasted less then 2 years and the print was all gone
the eco solvent banner print faded a little after 7 years
i think this is why i dont want to go latex

 

[BigfishDM]

the main print we do is banners posters decals vinyl wrap

i compared latex print to eco solvent out door use on a banner
the banner that was printed on latex lasted less then 2 years and the print was all gone
the eco solvent banner print faded a little after 7 years
i think this is why i dont want to go latex

I promise you that is NOT the case! The latex prints with the 831 inks will last just as long if not longer. If those are your main applications then those are some of the best applications to run in latex. Let me just go over a few quick things.

Do you laminate your decals? With latex you don't need to laminate decals anymore (Because of the durability and scratch resistance of the 831 inks)
Latex is a whole day faster than the other options for fleet wraps. (You have to wait to outgas before laminating your car wraps, with Latex you don't ever have to wait, you print laminate and go install right now)
Look at your paper cost to produce posters with the other machines. (Every compliance poster was printed with Latex and you can buy poster paper for $0.10 sq.ft, you cannot do that with the other inks)

I sell solvent and eco-solvent from Mimaki as well, I know there is not much that can be said about Latex that I cannot have a good counter discussion on so please feel free to reach out for a phone call if you want to know more about what Latex can do for you. 714-878-7989 Im Josh.

 

[ewded]

I promise you that is NOT the case! The latex prints with the 831 inks will last just as long if not longer. If those are your main applications then those are some of the best applications to run in latex. Let me just go over a few quick things.

Do you laminate your decals? With latex you don't need to laminate decals anymore (Because of the durability and scratch resistance of the 831 inks)
Latex is a whole day faster than the other options for fleet wraps. (You have to wait to outgas before laminating your car wraps, with Latex you don't ever have to wait, you print laminate and go install right now)
Look at your paper cost to produce posters with the other machines. (Every compliance poster was printed with Latex and you can buy poster paper for $0.10 sq.ft, you cannot do that with the other inks)

I sell solvent and eco-solvent from Mimaki as well, I know there is not much that can be said about Latex that I cannot have a good counter discussion on so please feel free to reach out for a phone call if you want to know more about what Latex can do for you. 714-878-7989 Im Josh.

Let me tell you my experience. I applied both latex and solvent (unlaminated) decals to my phone same design same size. They both lasted the same exact time. (versacamm ink / hp 310 latex) only difference was that the hp had much less vibrant colors and visibly bigger granules. Don't know why everybody talks about scratch resistance of the latex, do you compare latex with a first generation solvent printer or what?

 

[BigfishDM]

Let me tell you my experience. I applied both latex and solvent (unlaminated) decals to my phone same design same size. They both lasted the same exact time. (versacamm ink / hp 310 latex) only difference was that the hp had much less vibrant colors and visibly bigger granules. Don't know why everybody talks about scratch resistance of the latex, do you compare latex with a first generation solvent printer or what?

No, I am referring to the new generation Latex inks and comparing to any other machine on the market. Either you had an older generation latex or something else happened. You do not get grainy results with latex unless you are using a wrong setting.

 

[TomK]

You do not get grainy results with latex unless you are using a wrong setting

This is an absolutely false statement.

The technical aspects of the HP alone counter your claim. The ink picolitre size and the fixed droplet size of 12 pl alone prove this is not correct.

I'm an HP fan, but I'll put my money where my mouth is. Take a high end graphic and print it on the Epson S80600 and print it on a current generation HP latex machine, and I'll bet the Epson will smoke it in terms of quality for graininess and perhaps even color vibrancy.

Wait, my dealer already did this. He took our source files, had his techs print them on Mimaki, HP, and Epson. The Epson won hands down.

 

[BigfishDM]

This is an absolutely false statement.

The technical aspects of the HP alone counter your claim. The ink picolitre size and the fixed droplet size of 12 pl alone prove this is not correct.

I'm an HP fan, but I'll put my money where my mouth is. Take a high end graphic and print it on the Epson S80600 and print it on a current generation HP latex machine, and I'll bet the Epson will smoke it in terms of quality for graininess and perhaps even color vibrancy.

Wait, my dealer already did this. He took our source files, had his techs print them on Mimaki, HP, and Epson. The Epson won hands down.

Send me the file and your print from the Epson, I would like to see the results you claim. Why do they use HP Latex to print all the fine print on the compliance posters? Go look at your compliance poster, do you think those are grainy? Epsons are great machines but I don't think the quality is night and day difference with the graininess. For 99% of the public, I would imagine no one could really even tell the difference.

 

[BigfishDM]

This is an absolutely false statement.

The technical aspects of the HP alone counter your claim. The ink picolitre size and the fixed droplet size of 12 pl alone prove this is not correct.

I'm an HP fan, but I'll put my money where my mouth is. Take a high end graphic and print it on the Epson S80600 and print it on a current generation HP latex machine, and I'll bet the Epson will smoke it in terms of quality for graininess and perhaps even color vibrancy.

Wait, my dealer already did this. He took our source files, had his techs print them on Mimaki, HP, and Epson. The Epson won hands down.

Unless you personally ran the latex, any dealer can make an image look crappy to try and sell you something more profitable.

 

[TomK]

Send me the file and your print from the Epson, I would like to see the results you claim. Why do they use HP Latex to print all the fine print on the compliance posters? Go look at your compliance poster, do you think those are grainy? Epsons are great machines but I don't think the quality is night and day difference with the graininess. For 99% of the public, I would imagine no one could really even tell the difference.

Send me a PM with your email, I'll send you some of our sample files. Happy to have you print them at the best settings you can and prove me wrong.

Also, let me clarify - solid blue/red/blacks and general safety/compliance sign type colors are fine on the latex. When you get into the lighter colors is where the issue happens. We print safety signs all day long on our latex without problems, and love the fact I can laminate directly off of the printer. The higher end graphics with a bunch of lighter colors and such (think StickerMule type stickers) is another story.

Will send you a few PDF's once I have your email address.

 

[BigfishDM]

Send me a PM with your email, I'll send you some of our sample files. Happy to have you print them at the best settings you can and prove me wrong.

Also, let me clarify - solid blue/red/blacks and general safety type colors are fine on the latex. When you get into the lighter colors is where the issue happens. We print safety signs all day long on our latex without problems, and love the fact I can laminate directly off of the printer. The higher end graphics work with a bunch of lighter colors and such (think StickerMule type stickers) is another story.

Will send you a few PDF's once I have your email address.

Ok cool, I will PM you now. I totally understand what you're saying and I really appreciate the back and forth, please don't take anything I say as personal. Your input is always valuable!

 

[NazGraphics]

I promise you that is NOT the case! The latex prints with the 831 inks will last just as long if not longer. If those are your main applications then those are some of the best applications to run in latex. Let me just go over a few quick things.

Do you laminate your decals? With latex you don't need to laminate decals anymore (Because of the durability and scratch resistance of the 831 inks)
Latex is a whole day faster than the other options for fleet wraps. (You have to wait to outgas before laminating your car wraps, with Latex you don't ever have to wait, you print laminate and go install right now)
Look at your paper cost to produce posters with the other machines. (Every compliance poster was printed with Latex and you can buy poster paper for $0.10 sq.ft, you cannot do that with the other inks)

I sell solvent and eco-solvent from Mimaki as well, I know there is not much that can be said about Latex that I cannot have a good counter discussion on so please feel free to reach out for a phone call if you want to know more about what Latex can do for you. 714-878-7989 Im Josh.

hello josh
thanks for the great info
i will for sure call

 

[tomence]

Have been printing in HP L260 for the past 3-4 years and can tell you that the hp ink does not last as long as my Mimaki prints that i have done 6-8 years ago, hp ink started fading after year and a half to two years, so i am pressured to laminate everything i print even if it stays only for a year just to be on the safe side. I have my eye on the new Epson printers they seem to be doing really good, time will tell, but will never get another HP again, i am not sold on that latex thing, not for what i do. Plus on top of that don't get me start on the repairs and the thousands of dollars spent to fix my HP, had problems since the first year and is not fixed yet. This piece of crap is good for 2-3 years and that's pushing if you are printing a lot. I can go on and on but that is enough for now.

 

[kanini]

Scratch resistance on at least banner material is way better on the latex 3rd gen. compared to eco-solvent, at least what I've personnally tested and tried. We now run banners on latex printers only and the finishing is a breeze. You need to destroy the actual banner material to get the ink off. Feels like the eco-sol sits more on top.

 

[BigfishDM]

Have been printing in HP L260 for the past 3-4 years and can tell you that the hp ink does not last as long as my Mimaki prints that i have done 6-8 years ago, hp ink started fading after year and a half to two years, so i am pressured to laminate everything i print even if it stays only for a year just to be on the safe side. I have my eye on the new Epson printers they seem to be doing really good, time will tell, but will never get another HP again, i am not sold on that latex thing, not for what i do. Plus on top of that don't get me start on the repairs and the thousands of dollars spent to fix my HP, had problems since the first year and is not fixed yet. This piece of crap is good for 2-3 years and that's pushing if you are printing a lot. I can go on and on but that is enough for now.

That's understandable, they recognized the problems with that generation and really improved upon so much with the new gen3 inks. I know once you get burned it's hard to go back and your experience is unfortunate but I fricken love these things, I just think there are much more pros than cons. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Bingleardicus]

Solvent out performs latex by far, although to me it sounds like a UV ink would better suit your needs. Pure opinion here, I can testify to the Improvements through every generation of HP latex and although the bang for the buck is there, it only serves to compensate for what it lacks (again opinion). And that is a sustainable method for producing applications intended for outdoor use.