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My Trouble with SAi............
- Thread starter Pro Image
- Start date
stickerguynyc
New Member
after reading this... i won't buy flexisign upgrade to version 8.0... and won't buy anymore flexisign anymore....
Will find a bootleg version in ebay that don't need dongle...if customer suport is suck won't suport their product
Will find a bootleg version in ebay that don't need dongle...if customer suport is suck won't suport their product
Bogie
New Member
Matthew, I've been screwing around with the combination of a Mutoh Falcon Jr, a Graphtec CE5000-120, and Photoprint for several months now.
I had 4.2 or whatever come with the Mutoh. It didn't seem to want to play nice with the drivers for the Graphtec, so my local vendor told me that I would have no problems contour cutting with an upgrade to 5.0 DX without a bunch of tiresomely kludgy workarounds... So I bought it.
Prints fine (but so did the version 4.2). I have YET to get the thing to successfully contour cut. Been messing with it in off periods for the past several months. Finally, a coupla weeks back, I took a bit of time, and a nice person from Graphtec walked through an entire battery of things, including having the gizmo find the registration marks manually from the cutter's keypad, and then told me that I had a software problem... Those Graphtec guys don't speak English all that great, but they sure are sharp, and they want to fix the problems...
Okay... Called SAI. Talked to a tech, who had me revert everything. Still no dice. And then late last week (the contour cutting is destined to be a small amount of my business), I called your tech line again, and got informed that I was out of warranty, and he was sure that he could fix it, but I'd have to pay by the minute.
Sheesh. Now he's sure he can fix it, charging by the minute, but before, the answer was just basically "rip it out and redo?"
Chuck Bogardus
314-920-6860
I had 4.2 or whatever come with the Mutoh. It didn't seem to want to play nice with the drivers for the Graphtec, so my local vendor told me that I would have no problems contour cutting with an upgrade to 5.0 DX without a bunch of tiresomely kludgy workarounds... So I bought it.
Prints fine (but so did the version 4.2). I have YET to get the thing to successfully contour cut. Been messing with it in off periods for the past several months. Finally, a coupla weeks back, I took a bit of time, and a nice person from Graphtec walked through an entire battery of things, including having the gizmo find the registration marks manually from the cutter's keypad, and then told me that I had a software problem... Those Graphtec guys don't speak English all that great, but they sure are sharp, and they want to fix the problems...
Okay... Called SAI. Talked to a tech, who had me revert everything. Still no dice. And then late last week (the contour cutting is destined to be a small amount of my business), I called your tech line again, and got informed that I was out of warranty, and he was sure that he could fix it, but I'd have to pay by the minute.
Sheesh. Now he's sure he can fix it, charging by the minute, but before, the answer was just basically "rip it out and redo?"
Chuck Bogardus
314-920-6860
Pro Image
New Member
Inspire was the Flagship for Scanvec at one time............Thats untill they bought out the people that made Flexi...........When they did that they dropped support for Inspire totally and you could only get Flexi from them from that point on........They left a lot of people that paid 3500.00 + for their Inspire out in the cold............NO SUPPORT NO NOTHING!!!!!
Yes you could print with Inspire but the the type of printers that was supported stoped about 2001 and no more drivers were ever produced.........Mostly waterbased printers........
One company made a crack at selling Inspire re-coded for XP and It was just like the last release but I don't think they are in business any more.........
I use it to design in (I really like to node editing) and to run my cutters with.............
Pro Image
New Member
fast-lane-graphics
New Member
man I guess I shoulda saved my money....
Replicator
New Member
That's what happens when one company eats up another one . . .
bye bye support and service and we're all just SOL for the rest of our days . . . Bummer !
bye bye support and service and we're all just SOL for the rest of our days . . . Bummer !
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Not at all. A few posts of bad experiences do not serve to overwhelm the tens of thousands of individuals and businesses that have not had problems and use Flexi everyday to earn a great return on investment.
I've been a Flexi users now for 12 years and I simply do not use their tech support. But then I also don't use Gerber's tech support or Adobe's tech support or anyone else's tech support except as a last resort. Everything you need to know is in the help files and in your own ability to come to terms with a powerful tool and to use it profitably.
You purchased one of the best applications out there. Sit down with the book and the application and learn it.
Rodi
New Member
I thank you for this thread, I have always wondered what these products do, and why they are so expensive. I am new to signs, but I think Typestries said what I had thought why not just use bridge software and Freehand (my favorite) Illustrator, Photoshop, etc? My mind is made up!
Rodi
Rodi
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
So you're saying that support was to your liking before the merger/buyout? I used to be a CasMate dealer and the same complaints prevailed at that time also. I used to lose deals to a certain dealer who lowballed system prices and then would not return calls from his buyers. That's a situation between the customer and the dealer. There's no way ScanVec should have to pickup that responsibility.
The difference now is that there are a huge number of people that don't stay within the appropriate reseller channels to get their systems and they still think they should be able to call a manufacturer for support because their place of purchase is unable or unwilling to provide the support most people new to a complex product will need.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
That's a legitimate point of view and I respect it. OTOH, it would be interesting to see how much time three or four typical jobs took to design and produce on non-signmaking vs. signmaking based setups and whether or not there were any differences in the specifics of the finished jobs.
My suspicion is that with an equally competent operator on each setup we would see some level of difference in the total time expended between the two approaches.
Flame
New Member
Well, to design and then rip, it's just as fast with CoCut and CorelDraw, as it is with Flexi and it's own rip. It works the same, it comes down to which program is easier to design in. I think Flexi has a nice RIP, and it's production manager works pretty well. But for designing, it pales in comparison to Illustrator and Corel. So... if there's a RIP as powerful as Flexi's production manager that will plug into Corel or Illy, I'd say that'd be the winning choice. Faster, easier to use, and 1/5 of the the price.
I'm going to be more careful how I spend my money next time.
iSign
New Member
First, I feel your pain Dustin. I've felt like breaking my phone before in similar situations.
On the other hand, as much as I like to rant about the frustrations in life, I think the trend in this thread, until Freds comments, were adding up to a slightly unintentional stacked deck against SAI that was leaving others with partially false impressions.
I don't for a minute doubt the facts of your unacceptable treatment, but I do think the software has merit & there are alternatives to pay-per-minute support from a manufacturer that hasn't chosen to make technical support a primary focus.
You don't call the manufacturer when your kitchen appliances screw up, or your yard maintenance equipment, or your vehicle. Sometimes you can get help from the reseller, & sometimes from an "authorized dealer" or "authorized service center"
Both Dustin's and Bogie's experiences here were on new set-ups. Getting into digital printing is getting cheaper & posts here are always lamenting the fact that this will bring an excess of competition... yet we also see discussions of how we can save a buck here or there for whoever has the cheapest printer, or bulk ink or what have you.
My point is that when you decide to spend several thousand, often tens of thousands, on bringing new equipment on board... a little penny pinching is understandable, but spend the money you need at time like this. I bought my equipment from a dealer in Michigan, even though I could get the same equipment right here in Hawaii. Did I pay more for freight? Damn right I did! Then they offered to come and set up the new equipment, at $1000 cost to me, where the local company would have been there for free. I knew that going in & of course I was more then happy to pay to have a professional get everything running perfectly & train me at the same time.
Personally I don't know why anybody would ever buy machines like this without service like that. It's not like setting up an HP desktop printer... it is complicated schittte.
I hate being backed against the wall & having $50 yanked out of my pocket by ruthless software manufacturer thugs & I try to avoid trolling their dark alleys when I'm in need... but if & when I have to, I try to remember that I can bang out a $50 magnet in half the time I spent typing this post... so even if it feels like highway robbery... pay the man, get the help & have your money-making equipment fixed as fast as possible, instead of screwing yourself for days or weeks over the principal behind the $50
There was a reason I spent the extra freight and set-up costs to buy my printing equipment out of state. My reseller in Michigan (Advantage Sign Supply) offers excellent tech support on not only my large format printer equipment that I bought from them, but also my Edge that I didn't buy from them, & both Omage and Flexi that I didn't buy from them. Why? ...well I think buying upgrades to both software packages had something to do with it, & buying all my edge printing foils and media may also have helped... but I think they view their support service as providing Island Sign with support, rather then limiting it to a specific hardware or software.
Advantage has a "Gold" member status for support, and to qualify you need to average $500 per month in purchases. when I first heard of that I doubted I could qualify, but I started dealing with them anyway. I think the non "gold" members get the same great support, but they have a caller que & waiting for the call back, results in longer waits for non gold members since gold members have priority. There are probably other limitations, & possibly paid per call service for non-supported software or hardware, but the main thing is unlike some manufacturers... they HAVE decided to make quality support for hardware & software a primary focus in their company. They HAVE put a good system in place to handle our needs, & keep several qualified people on staff that are highly trained in the equipment, software AND customer service skills.
And, when something real complicated comes up, like my own troubles getting Flexi switched over to a new CPU and properly set up to my equipment with all the same profiles... they got me 90% of the way there, but as soon as something seemed beyond them, THEY called SAI for me AND they stayed on the line with me, for an hour... just to make sure I got taken care of. (And they probably paid for that call too, but I never even knew about that) For the record the guy I dealt with at SAI was nowhere near os friendly as the Advantage staff ALWAYS is... but he started getting to the bottom of the issue... and then he had to get his service manager on the line... I even had some attitude with this guy untill I gave him a little back & we both stopped & realized we needed to work together to resolve the issue, and managed to retreat back to professional communication & we got my equipment back to optimal performance. Because of the 6 hour time difference, AND multiple issues including port recognition issues that my own IT guy had to resolve on the computer first... the process was spread over three days... but even that was ok, because I knew a switch like this would take time & have bumps in the road, so I planned it accordingly.
I don't have all the facts, but if I had to guess, I would think they probably offered support for up to a year after the point in time they bought amiable. What I do know is that registered Casmate owners, like myself, were offered (by mail) an exceptional "crossgrade" price to get into Flexi at that time, so we wouldn't be "out in the cold." Like Fred, I hardly ever used tech support anyway & hadn't been impressed with casmate support back in the beginning when I needed it more, so I never really sought out any support... but I think the limitation of only running on W98 was already beginning to be a problem when SAI was formed... so I took the deal. $1100 for Flexi Pro! ...AND I got to keep Casmate, so I basically saved thousands over what others paid for the same software because they didn't want to screw their existing customer base. I know they offered this to registered Inspire owners as well.
In my case, my $1100 Flexi software gathered dust on the shelf for 3 years before I ever loaded it, because I was addicted to Casmate. Finally when I bought my printer, it was there & saved me buying another RIP. I pretty much use it as a bridge program myself, because I design in Adobe software, but it is well integrated with my expensive equipment & supported by the same people as my equipment, and that is worth a LOT!!
On the other hand, as much as I like to rant about the frustrations in life, I think the trend in this thread, until Freds comments, were adding up to a slightly unintentional stacked deck against SAI that was leaving others with partially false impressions.
I don't for a minute doubt the facts of your unacceptable treatment, but I do think the software has merit & there are alternatives to pay-per-minute support from a manufacturer that hasn't chosen to make technical support a primary focus.
You don't call the manufacturer when your kitchen appliances screw up, or your yard maintenance equipment, or your vehicle. Sometimes you can get help from the reseller, & sometimes from an "authorized dealer" or "authorized service center"
Both Dustin's and Bogie's experiences here were on new set-ups. Getting into digital printing is getting cheaper & posts here are always lamenting the fact that this will bring an excess of competition... yet we also see discussions of how we can save a buck here or there for whoever has the cheapest printer, or bulk ink or what have you.
My point is that when you decide to spend several thousand, often tens of thousands, on bringing new equipment on board... a little penny pinching is understandable, but spend the money you need at time like this. I bought my equipment from a dealer in Michigan, even though I could get the same equipment right here in Hawaii. Did I pay more for freight? Damn right I did! Then they offered to come and set up the new equipment, at $1000 cost to me, where the local company would have been there for free. I knew that going in & of course I was more then happy to pay to have a professional get everything running perfectly & train me at the same time.
Personally I don't know why anybody would ever buy machines like this without service like that. It's not like setting up an HP desktop printer... it is complicated schittte.
I hate being backed against the wall & having $50 yanked out of my pocket by ruthless software manufacturer thugs & I try to avoid trolling their dark alleys when I'm in need... but if & when I have to, I try to remember that I can bang out a $50 magnet in half the time I spent typing this post... so even if it feels like highway robbery... pay the man, get the help & have your money-making equipment fixed as fast as possible, instead of screwing yourself for days or weeks over the principal behind the $50
There was a reason I spent the extra freight and set-up costs to buy my printing equipment out of state. My reseller in Michigan (Advantage Sign Supply) offers excellent tech support on not only my large format printer equipment that I bought from them, but also my Edge that I didn't buy from them, & both Omage and Flexi that I didn't buy from them. Why? ...well I think buying upgrades to both software packages had something to do with it, & buying all my edge printing foils and media may also have helped... but I think they view their support service as providing Island Sign with support, rather then limiting it to a specific hardware or software.
Advantage has a "Gold" member status for support, and to qualify you need to average $500 per month in purchases. when I first heard of that I doubted I could qualify, but I started dealing with them anyway. I think the non "gold" members get the same great support, but they have a caller que & waiting for the call back, results in longer waits for non gold members since gold members have priority. There are probably other limitations, & possibly paid per call service for non-supported software or hardware, but the main thing is unlike some manufacturers... they HAVE decided to make quality support for hardware & software a primary focus in their company. They HAVE put a good system in place to handle our needs, & keep several qualified people on staff that are highly trained in the equipment, software AND customer service skills.
And, when something real complicated comes up, like my own troubles getting Flexi switched over to a new CPU and properly set up to my equipment with all the same profiles... they got me 90% of the way there, but as soon as something seemed beyond them, THEY called SAI for me AND they stayed on the line with me, for an hour... just to make sure I got taken care of. (And they probably paid for that call too, but I never even knew about that) For the record the guy I dealt with at SAI was nowhere near os friendly as the Advantage staff ALWAYS is... but he started getting to the bottom of the issue... and then he had to get his service manager on the line... I even had some attitude with this guy untill I gave him a little back & we both stopped & realized we needed to work together to resolve the issue, and managed to retreat back to professional communication & we got my equipment back to optimal performance. Because of the 6 hour time difference, AND multiple issues including port recognition issues that my own IT guy had to resolve on the computer first... the process was spread over three days... but even that was ok, because I knew a switch like this would take time & have bumps in the road, so I planned it accordingly.
I don't have all the facts, but if I had to guess, I would think they probably offered support for up to a year after the point in time they bought amiable. What I do know is that registered Casmate owners, like myself, were offered (by mail) an exceptional "crossgrade" price to get into Flexi at that time, so we wouldn't be "out in the cold." Like Fred, I hardly ever used tech support anyway & hadn't been impressed with casmate support back in the beginning when I needed it more, so I never really sought out any support... but I think the limitation of only running on W98 was already beginning to be a problem when SAI was formed... so I took the deal. $1100 for Flexi Pro! ...AND I got to keep Casmate, so I basically saved thousands over what others paid for the same software because they didn't want to screw their existing customer base. I know they offered this to registered Inspire owners as well.
In my case, my $1100 Flexi software gathered dust on the shelf for 3 years before I ever loaded it, because I was addicted to Casmate. Finally when I bought my printer, it was there & saved me buying another RIP. I pretty much use it as a bridge program myself, because I design in Adobe software, but it is well integrated with my expensive equipment & supported by the same people as my equipment, and that is worth a LOT!!
S
Sign-Man Signs
Guest
Fred I have to agree about the help program. I feel for you PRO it's such a bang your head against the wall thing. You think if you spend $4200.00 dollars for a program, support should be free(forever) to registered users. Hench the dongle key. I don't use any support from any of our software programs. I use the HELP menu. If you read it long enough you will begin to understand WTF they're talking about.
Maybe SAI will see these posts and try to improve their support level, but I doubt it. Flexi to me is the best rip/print out there but support is second rate. Just my 2 cents.
Service Sign Co
New Member
4,200.00 Is that what Flexi Pro 8 cost? My distrubtor didn't know without looking it up, was suppuse to call me back 1 week ago haven' heard back yet.
Pro Image
New Member
First off Flexi is a good program for what it does.......Im not disputing that.........
The problem I have with them is their Tech Support.........
Doug I bought my set-up from a good dealer with great support......The problem was that the password they assigned to my program was a temporary one........My dealer didn't have the info and I don't think any dealer could have know what was the problem was....Heck it took Flexi support almost 2 hours to figure it out............
This was not a HOW TO issue....This was a problem that they created before they shipped the software.......Thus me getting angry for having to pay for the support............
As for the warranty on the program........They told me it was up......They said the key # was generated in March and thats when the 90 days start..........I didn't receive the program untill mid July and registered it the day I installed it.........They had the info that was sent to them that day......They then told me they need to have a PO of the equipment to verify that I was the legal owner and when I had purchased it...........
This is what upset me the most and Im still tick about it.....They basically acted like I stole the program and I was tiring to screw them some how................
This is the first time I have used support for any of my programs....
The problem was resolved great, but the shit I had to put up with was mind breaking..........
Do you think that GM gave you a 90 day warranty that they would sell any vehicles.........?
You pay almost as much for a program as you give for a Hyundia and they give you a 100,000 mile warranty...........
Don't make much sense to me..............
The problem I have with them is their Tech Support.........
Doug I bought my set-up from a good dealer with great support......The problem was that the password they assigned to my program was a temporary one........My dealer didn't have the info and I don't think any dealer could have know what was the problem was....Heck it took Flexi support almost 2 hours to figure it out............
This was not a HOW TO issue....This was a problem that they created before they shipped the software.......Thus me getting angry for having to pay for the support............
As for the warranty on the program........They told me it was up......They said the key # was generated in March and thats when the 90 days start..........I didn't receive the program untill mid July and registered it the day I installed it.........They had the info that was sent to them that day......They then told me they need to have a PO of the equipment to verify that I was the legal owner and when I had purchased it...........
This is what upset me the most and Im still tick about it.....They basically acted like I stole the program and I was tiring to screw them some how................
This is the first time I have used support for any of my programs....
The problem was resolved great, but the shit I had to put up with was mind breaking..........
Do you think that GM gave you a 90 day warranty that they would sell any vehicles.........?
You pay almost as much for a program as you give for a Hyundia and they give you a 100,000 mile warranty...........
Don't make much sense to me..............