Need Advice On A Color Conundrum With A Customer

[Junrall]

So, here is the scenario:


I recently picked up a customer who has his own sign shop that produces cut vinyl only. He has no print experience other than buying his prints from print shops like mine... and designs all of the art that he wants printed.


Often times he sends files and specifies what he expects some of the colors to look like. So, for instance, he'll tell me that a file has "lime green" and that it should be a bright lime green. So, I'll do a test print and see that the color "looks" bright... at least to me it does. I print his job and send it off to him. A day later he lets me know that the prints look great, but the lime green was just a tad off. This sometimes can be time consuming and frustrating for both me and, I assume, him as well (super nice fellow by the way).


To try and save us both some headaches, I have sent him the Roland Swatch library booklet, Roland color poster, and Roland swatch colors for Coreldraw and Illustrator. I included some instructions explaining how the system works and have also let him know that he can use the Pantone library as well. I have talked with him many times and he seems to be savvy with using spot colors... and still, I have the same problems with him, think the problem has compounded!


I am almost positive that he is sometimes trying to match colors between the Roland color chart and his screen... and then tells me what Roland color it should be! Other times he says the color should be good because he used the RGB values from a Roland spot color or Pantone colors... not usable in a way that VersaWorks uses spot color names. In hindsight, I wish I had blacked out all of the RGB values on the charts I gave him.


Other times, he'll just send me a jpg thinking that just because it's a jpg, I'll be able to look at it on my monitor and know exactly what the output is supposed to look like.


I know the issue is because he has no hands on experience with printing, but at the same time I feel like he just wants to do it his way because it's "too hard".
I'm at the point where I just don't want to deal with this anymore because it consumes a lot of my time that can be devoted to other profitable jobs.


Any ideas or advise would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks is advance!


~June~

 

[player]

I would be concerned that by the time you give him one on one long term training, he will buy his own printer and be your competitor.

 

[AF]

Sounds like a good customer who just needs a little education. Invite him over to your shop to see the behind-the-scenes of your workflow so he will take you as the authority on the subject of color, then get him to calibrate his monitor and invest in some PMS books. I wouldn't worry about making him into an expert, but give him some directions he can go to learn on his own. He is telling you his expectations of color but lacks the ability to correctly communicate his needs.

 

[Junrall]

Not too worried about him being a competitor as we have a large qty of miles and mountains betweens, which also hinders a visit to my shop a bit.

Haha... just now went through a black "issue" with him. Luckily for me it was just a few clicks drop in a Roland black. When I told him what I did to fix it, he had no comment. Guess I need to start charging for that. Maybe his wallet will push him to learn this stuff.

 

[Billct2]

If he's that fussy it has to cost more.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I would explain to him that "bright lime green" is not a professional way to describe colour. He needs to either invest in a pantone swatch book (preferably the Bridge vesrion), or use the roland one properly. Add to this that you can not match a pantone colour perfectly with a digital printer.

See if he would have any interest in viewing one of Roland's webinars on colour management using their colour system, if so, send him your printer's serial # and he can log on and view a recording of the webinar. If not, I would insist on a colour proofs with the files, with some sort of colour reference included.

 

[Marlene]

I would explain to him that "bright lime green" is not a professional way to describe colour. He needs to either invest in a pantone swatch book (preferably the Bridge vesrion), or use the roland one properly. Add to this that you can not match a pantone colour perfectly with a digital printer.

See if he would have any interest in viewing one of Roland's webinars on colour management using their colour system, if so, send him your printer's serial # and he can log on and view a recording of the webinar. If not, I would insist on a colour proofs with the files, with some sort of colour reference included.

agree. "bright lime green" is a term a customer off the street if allowed to use but not a sign company. he needs to spec his own work

 

[StopSignGraphics]

If the job is large enough, I offer them a press proof at no charge. That's just as much for me as the customer.

If it's a small job, they have the option of paying for a press proof. If they opt not to buy the proof, what I print is what they get.

Color matching is billed at an hourly rate plus materials on small jobs.

You have to be careful, I wound up spending hours on small jobs trying to satisfy a picky customer. It got to a point it wasn't worth it to continue the relationship without charging for the additional service. I revamped the policies, had a meeting with the customer. I was polite and explained my position.

They are still my customer, they rarely opt for color matching or for a press proof and they stopped being nit picky.

Good luck,
Chris

 

[HulkSmash]

1500+ jobs color proofs all day.

30-300 dollar job. I throw it in the trash.

 

[gabagoo]

Bright lime green would be next to impossible on my printer....

 

[2B]

I would explain to him that "bright lime green" is not a professional way to describe colour. He needs to either invest in a pantone swatch book (preferably the Bridge version), or use the roland one properly. Add to this that you can not match a pantone colour perfectly with a digital printer.

+1
what we have also found to be very helpful is to a color swatch onto the intended vinyl, send that to the wholesale and that way they can see exactly what they will be getting.
By the time you try to explain PMS to RGB or CMYK it is a hassle, and the added issue that each vinyl brand will cause the colors to look different

 

[Mosh]

RUN!!!! Sooner or later they will get their own printer and stabb you in the back. I have turned down SO MANY vinyl hacks wanting prints. I learned this lesson years ago when I had 3-4 shop buying stuff from me, NEVER turns out good.

 

[player]

RUN!!!! Sooner or later they will get their own printer and stabb you in the back. I have turned down SO MANY vinyl hacks wanting prints. I learned this lesson years ago when I had 3-4 shop buying stuff from me, NEVER turns out good.

That's what I said.

You open your whole shop up to them, your pricing, you teach them, then they go after your market. All they have to do is buy some crap from you at discount prices.

 

[Techman]

I do not show work to many people any more.. Why. because someone seems to feel its fair game to poach clients.. Same with buyers of wholesale in the shop. It seems just have to poach clients.

I feel it is out of desperation. They run their bizz out of their checkbook and always a dollar short. They are so desperate they poach clients. One way or another they will get one or two. Some feel it is their right to get your clients.

 

[thesignexpert]

Perhaps a "broadside of a barn" approach would work with your client? Sometimes I will explain this color issue to a new client in shooting terms. When it comes to colors, we have to find the best target available AND we both have to agree on what the target is. They could tell me to hit "Dark Red" (the broadside of the barn) when we really need to be shooting at a little knothole to the left of the door. I hit the barn and consider it a job well done while he thinks I missed by a mile...

THIS is why we have Pantone books... to get everybody shooting at the same target. The Pantone Bridge book is especially helpful in identifying potentially problematic colors that may not reproduce well in CMYK.

Just my $.02

 

[Z SIGNS]

Why so many color conundrums around here ?

I never have color problems because I only print what I design.

My prints look just like they look on the screen.

The problem starts when you get into 257,000,0000 shades of subjective bright green.

This is not a good place to be unless you equipped and are getting fairly paid to deal with it.

 

[Junrall]

I would explain to him that "bright lime green" is not a professional way to describe colour. He needs to either invest in a pantone swatch book (preferably the Bridge vesrion), or use the roland one properly. Add to this that you can not match a pantone colour perfectly with a digital printer.

See if he would have any interest in viewing one of Roland's webinars on colour management using their colour system, if so, send him your printer's serial # and he can log on and view a recording of the webinar. If not, I would insist on a colour proofs with the files, with some sort of colour reference included.

I totally agree with the use of pantone books and do practice this myself. Funny thing is, he has a pantone book as well, but for some reason doesn't insert the pantones himself. It's as if he expects me to make that happen... maybe because he doesn't know how or is to lazy to figure it out. I have offered to send him a quick vid on how to use the pantone/Roland colors in his software.... I got no comment back... haha!

I've decided to have a "Here's how its going to be, and here are your options" talk with him:
I'll not accept no more special color names or hues.
He has to figure out how to use his pantone book and start using pantone colors in his designs.
If he wants me to handle color corrections/adjustments on my end... its gonna cost more... which means less or no profit margin for him. I gotta make up lost time that could have been used making money elsewhere.


As for him purchasing a printer and back stabbing me.... meh, I'm not to worried. It took this fellow three years to feel comfortable in upgrading from an old beat up 24" cutter to new cutter of the same exact size. Hes been drooling over printing for the past 6 years and still has not stepped up to the plate. And if he does eventually get one... power to him.

Thanks for all the comments! All are valid. I will use some of the ideas with this customer.
Half the battle is often trying to educate the customer!

 

[neil_se]

Good decision. Trade prices are for resellers providing print-ready files, if he's going to make you work for it like a retail customer, then he should pay retail price.

 

[WCSign]

I went through the same process with a buddy who designs motorcycle wraps.. he has a chart at his house and it works well.. except when he gets high and forgets to click that BK21


on another note, I worked at it one day and have a really really nice lime green outta my roland..

 

[2B]

I worked at it one day and have a really really nice lime green outta my roland..

mind sharing the process you are using

 

[Junrall]

I went through the same process with a buddy who designs motorcycle wraps.. he has a chart at his house and it works well.. except when he gets high and forgets to click that BK21


on another note, I worked at it one day and have a really really nice lime green outta my roland..

Haha.... I like working with stoners... easy to mess with!!



So, just figured out what the problem is.... he thinks that just changing rgb values to the values of his pantone book is the same as actually selecting the pantone within the software.

Will be having that talk with him this weekend.