NEVER BUY A ROLAND!

[Nexus6]

Recently our Roland wide format printer starting acting up by running a cleaning cycle during every printing process. (there were no updates made to software or changes made to the machine)

After much trouble shooting we found out that the chip on the OEM ink cartridges were bad and so the printer thought we were using 3rd party inks. (We've ALWAYS used OEM inks since we got the printer) When it detects 3rd party inks, it runs a cleaning cycle every feet or so to punish you and waste your time and ink, and once it recognizes a 3rd party ink, its a permanent thing.

After going back and forth with a Roland tech, in the end they just told us pretty much "we can't support you any more and you're on your own." I just wanted to warn you all about this. Its also always very difficult to get a hold of anyone at Roland for tech support. Our printer was 5+ years old and they said it reached end of life and was no longer supported. Our $18,000 investment is now worthless. Do not buy from Roland.

 

[FrankW]

I do not understand: if you have a malfunctioning chip on an OEM-cartridge, you should be able to replace the cartridges and everything should be ok again. It is definitely NOT a permanent thing, could it be that a chip reader in your printer is damaged?

You are very lucky with roland, because there are other printers on the market which will not work at all with 3rd party inks (or a damaged chip or chip reader).

What do you mean with an age of 5+? 6 years? Or 10 years? If you print for customers, you should have paid your printer with your return of investment in a reasonable period of time, shurely better 4 than 6 or 8 years. If you are desparated about an $18‘000-Investment after 5+ years, something should be wrong with your business model.

If you now buy a printer from an other manufacturer, you have to expect a stop of support sometimes too.

 

[AKwrapguy]

As far as I know every printer and material warns you to not to use non OEM parts and inks. Doing so voids any warranty on the machine, quality output or material failure.

Unfortunately the burden of proof is on you to prove you didn't use 3rd party inks.

I wish you good luck with getting this figured out.

 

[greysquirrel]

Never saw a Roland OEM chip register as non OEM. Sounds a bit fishy to me. You may want to have a chat with the person that sold you the ink. Yes the printer tracks it’s history. And yes you open yourself up to Roland having the decision whether to support you or not depending on your situation when you use third party ink.
Sounds like you rolled the dice and lost.
No manufacturer wants an unhappy customer. But if you are trying to get a free head or service on a 5 year old printer out of warranty when you used third party ink, I’m sorry but you are out of luck with any manufacturer.

 

[greysquirrel]

And if you got 5+ years on a Roland printer…or any printer, that’s a pretty good endorsement for their product. I’m sure you made more money than 3k a year…

 

[StephenOrange]

Here's the simple, unavoidable fact as I see it. Every OEM at some stage will leave you hanging. It's just life. I've owned various ink-technology-based printers over the last 25+ years from most of the major brands, and they all fail in their duties in some form or another at some stage. Technicians come and go, products hit their life cycle limits, support becomes a pain as the supplier starts pushing you to buy the next big thing. I've remained commited to OEM ink on some machines, and gone only 3rd party inks on others. And throughout this all, I can't give the one way a better score than the other.
HP's drop of very popular machines recently left many machines utterly useless and I switched back to Roland, and quite happy with it even with third-party inks. Just looking at the daily complaints on groups about the HP's and the insane complexities they introduce actually had me wondering how I stayed so committed to HP for so many years.
One thing I stand by - learn everything you can about your machines. And buy equipment that keep things simple and mechanical.
All this too say, your problem is not with the Roland printer, it's with your supplier and support.

 

[garyroy]

Nexus6, welcome to the wacky world of machine operation. It seems like they have a mind of their own sometimes.
My daughter thinks that one of our machines will only work for me. It almost acts like a pet, nice to me, mean to others.
Your frustration might be happening because you have some deadlines and things are piling up, we've all felt that before.

May I ask a question, BTW, I have 3 Rolands, what was your method of determining that the chips on the cartridges were bad?
Was it a piece of software, or do you have a diagnostic tool? Did a technician tell you this? It would seem odd that all the chips in all the
installed cartridges were bad. Was the ink purchased from a Roland dealer? Ink is expensive, we all know this. But how did you make that determination
that the chips were bad?

As far as Roland online service goes, I have to agree with you, they are not good at all. When we first got our VP-540i I was amazed how incapable and uninterested
the technicians at Roland were when I called to ask questions. It was like they wanted to get me off the phone so they could get back to their in-house chat session.
I learned quick not to rely on them for anything. But you must try to be resourceful. Are there any local freelance techs that might be able to help diagnose the problem? If it's out of warranty, then you might have to seek other avenues of help? Can you find someone that does online support that can offer suggestions? And here's the big question: can you trade the machine in to the dealer for a new machine? Frustration will accomplish nothing. Be creative and keep the business moving.

Something we as small business owners usually never do is put money away on a monthly basis to replace equipment that we are wearing out every day.
If you're making a monthly payment of $400, you also need to put away $400/month so that at the end of the lease if there is a catastrophic failure you just go out
and buy another machine. Even if you only put away $200 a month, that would be a nice down payment and get you a low-cost lease on a new printer.
Don't be mad at the entire world, just adjust your methods of business.

Ok bro', sorry for the long Dutch uncle lecture. One last thing, if you're really committed to being a sign professional, don't just come on here and rag on Roland
and then leave and not be heard from again. Do something positive, come back and offer useful suggestions to others. You don't have many postings and the ones you have
seem to be complaints. Next time you visit bring some useful information, maybe even a job with some pics. You can do it! Let us know how you solved this problem.

 

[humberto s]

I do not understand: if you have a malfunctioning chip on an OEM-cartridge, you should be able to replace the cartridges and everything should be ok again. It is definitely NOT a permanent thing, could it be that a chip reader in your printer is damaged?

You are very lucky with roland, because there are other printers on the market which will not work at all with 3rd party inks (or a damaged chip or chip reader).

What do you mean with an age of 5+? 6 years? Or 10 years? If you print for customers, you should have paid your printer with your return of investment in a reasonable period of time, shurely better 4 than 6 or 8 years. If you are desparated about an $18‘000-Investment after 5+ years, something should be wrong with your business model.

If you now buy a printer from an other manufacturer, you have to expect a stop of support sometimes too.

Why are you going to the trouble of writing all these messes for? do you own roland? the way you respond to someone who comes to ask for help is deplorable... to say "you are lucky" when the person is asking for help is a bad character person. say that on the assumption of mismanaging a company no longer has the right to complain about the lack of technical support from the brand or that equipment that is 5 or 10 years old has to be discarded in the trash according to brands that only think about profit and not the buyer or in a sustainable environment.

 

[humberto s]

Recently our Roland wide format printer starting acting up by running a cleaning cycle during every printing process. (there were no updates made to software or changes made to the machine)

After much trouble shooting we found out that the chip on the OEM ink cartridges were bad and so the printer thought we were using 3rd party inks. (We've ALWAYS used OEM inks since we got the printer) When it detects 3rd party inks, it runs a cleaning cycle every feet or so to punish you and waste your time and ink, and once it recognizes a 3rd party ink, its a permanent thing.

After going back and forth with a Roland tech, in the end they just told us pretty much "we can't support you any more and you're on your own." I just wanted to warn you all about this. Its also always very difficult to get a hold of anyone at Roland for tech support. Our printer was 5+ years old and they said it reached end of life and was no longer supported. Our $18,000 investment is now worthless. Do not buy from Roland.

I totally agree and sympathize with your problem. I have a 10 year old Mutoh printer vj1614, I changed the print head and the dealer used new range oem inks which ruined my new head because the transport liquid in the head is not compatible with the new mutoh inks. Mutoh dealer do not take responsible. I'm a responsible person with few resources and yes I use a machine with 10 years old ... as it should be for the investment we pay and ecologic responsability.You must insist on the responsibility of whoever sold you the inks. IF doenst work for you go to public ,, reclaiming on sites about who sold you the ink and Roland manufaters ig need. Do what you have to do. Good luck

 

[Jim Hill]

I remember when the Roland service manager told me that my SP-300V was a legacy printer and that they would no longer service it or sell me the parts to serve it my self.

I told him that's find because there are many other companies, some in China reproducing parts for my printer, and they are more than happy to take my money and send me the parts.
And for those wondering about using parts from China, my experience is they work just fine.

Roland really wants every user to upgrade to their latest printer, so they make it difficult to receive service. Just remember with the newer printers, you are locked out of service mode.

Jim

 

[FrankW]

Why are you going to the trouble of writing all these messes for? do you own roland? the way you respond to someone who comes to ask for help is deplorable... to say "you are lucky" when the person is asking for help is a bad character person. say that on the assumption of mismanaging a company no longer has the right to complain about the lack of technical support from the brand or that equipment that is 5 or 10 years old has to be discarded in the trash according to brands that only think about profit and not the buyer or in a sustainable environment.

He havent asked for help. But I have given help: have described that this frequent cleaning cycles should stop when he uses a correct chip, and if not that perhaps the chip reader could be damaged.

And he is lucky with a printer which let him continue working even with a non-OEM-Chip, a Mutoh for example will stop working at all, as a Mimaki too.

There are a lot of possible causes because a manufacturer can‘t support older printers anymore: third-party-components which are not available anymore, running out of stock for special parts like mainboards for example and, and, and. Have nothing to do with mismanagement.

It doesnt make sense to blame Roland in public for something which will happen to him with EVERY SINGLE printer brand. And, to be honest, when he, after 5+ years, blames that he lost the whole initial investment, so he havent paid the printer in a reasonable period of time with earning money for prints, than this is not the problem of the printer manufacturer,

 

[Johnny Best]

FrankW is giving you great advice.

 

[greysquirrel]

Why are you going to the trouble of writing all these messes for? do you own roland? the way you respond to someone who comes to ask for help is deplorable... to say "you are lucky" when the person is asking for help is a bad character person. say that on the assumption of mismanaging a company no longer has the right to complain about the lack of technical support from the brand or that equipment that is 5 or 10 years old has to be discarded in the trash according to brands that only think about profit and not the buyer or in a sustainable environment.

He was not asking for help. He started the thread bashing a manufacturer. You may not like to hear the but facts are facts. This class of printer is not designed to run forever. Product cycles do reach an end of life and no longer have to be nor should they have to be supported by the manufacturer. This is where local techs and resellers will pick up the slack. But eventually you will have to move into something new as a business owner.
He never mentioned his model number. Only 5+ years. So I am assuming his product reached his end of life.

 

[garyroy]

Nexus6, you really got me thinking over the weekend, and some of the other comments helped.
When I bought my Roland VP about 12 years ago, for $20,000, since it ran so well I really got committed to the brand.
I don't do a lot of on press cutting, mostly printing. So I bought another used one about 3 years ago and just bought another used one about 5 months ago.
After looking over the Roland website this weekend, I may have made a mistake.

Instead of the 2 used printers that I added to the fleet, I probably should have bought a brand new one, print only, for $15K.
I would not only be getting the newest technology, and a 2 year warranty (the others have been serviced several times) but I would actually have been
upgrading the fleet. Faster printing, newer technology, better software, fewer service calls. Man, that's a win win.
I think I'll put the 2 old boys up for sale, maybe get $10K for both of them. Then add another 5K and get something new that can really put out the
prints. Then in a year or 2 get rid of the last old one and do a finance deal.
$300 a month is pretty reasonable these days for a machine that can put out $25K a month in printing. A new machine should easily outpace 2 old models.
Your thread and others comments got an old man thinking in a better direction. Thanks for the help.

 

[Solventinkjet]

I have a 10 year old Mutoh printer vj1614, I changed the print head and the dealer used new range oem inks which ruined my new head because the transport liquid in the head is not compatible with the new mutoh inks

As a Mutoh dealer, when the new inks came out, we got a memo describing which head part numbers were compatible with the new inks and which were not. Even with the ones that are not, you could flush them and still use them. Dealer should have known.

 

[truckgraphics]

I know this thread is getting a little long in the tooth, but it sounds like the OP is having a firmware problem similar to one that we had a couple years ago.

We never used third party inks, but there was some reason or another to upgrade VersaWorks, or perhaps it was just the firmware. There was some interaction between the new Roland ink and the firmware.

We are/were running a relatively older version of VersaWorks.

If you have access to a more recent version of VersaWorks, then you should be able to update on the Roland website.

If you are running an older version, I recall that there is an English speaking and Japanese update portal and only one still works. I don't recall which but think it was the Japanese portal...This is from my memory. At any rate, if one update portal doesn't work, try the other. And if you can back up what you have, that's a good idea too!

Our local Roland distributor helped us find an answer to our problem.

 

[Jim Hill]

One person posted this reply: He never mentioned his model number. Only 5+ years. So I am assuming his product reached his end of life.

Now that is what I call built in obsolesce.

Many manufacturers do this today with many products, from appliances to car parts to wide format printers.
Years ago it was common for appliances to last for between 15 and 25 years, and then manufacturers realized they could sell more appliances if they only lasted between 8 and 12 years.

When I was looking for a new washer and drier I asked the sale person who I knew at Home Depot how long he thought these appliances might last, he told me if I get between 7 to 10 years I should consider myself lucky !!

When my cell phone started acting up, I figured it needed a New battery, only to find out you can no longer change batteries, and instead they want you to purchase a new phone.
Maybe they should apply this type of thinking to cars and when your battery dies, just tell you it's time to purchase a New car.

My Roland SP-300V works like a charm, and it was new in 2004,

Just my opinion. Jim

 

[Johnny Best]

Maybe they should apply this type of thinking to cars and when your battery dies, just tell you it's time to purchase a New car.

Tesla

 

[weyandsign]

One person posted this reply: He never mentioned his model number. Only 5+ years. So I am assuming his product reached his end of life.

Now that is what I call built in obsolesce.

Many manufacturers do this today with many products, from appliances to car parts to wide format printers.
Years ago it was common for appliances to last for between 15 and 25 years, and then manufacturers realized they could sell more appliances if they only lasted between 8 and 12 years.

When I was looking for a new washer and drier I asked the sale person who I knew at Home Depot how long he thought these appliances might last, he told me if I get between 7 to 10 years I should consider myself lucky !!

When my cell phone started acting up, I figured it needed a New battery, only to find out you can no longer change batteries, and instead they want you to purchase a new phone.
Maybe they should apply this type of thinking to cars and when your battery dies, just tell you it's time to purchase a New car.

My Roland SP-300V works like a charm, and it was new in 2004,

Just my opinion. Jim

New washers aren't allowed to use as much water or electricity than they did 20 years ago. And they found half the parts in the old appliances cause cancer in California. So they all needed to be re-engineered. In the future you won't be allowed to purchase a new car, because you'll own nothing and be happy.

 

[FrankW]

One person posted this reply: He never mentioned his model number. Only 5+ years. So I am assuming his product reached his end of life.

Now that is what I call built in obsolesce.

Most of the manufacturers in our business will provide spare parts for up to 8 or 10 years after they stop selling them new. Should be more than enough time for a professional business to have such machines more than paid with jobs they have generated with. To make machines more sturdy that they last longer would be possible, but then they will cost much more money. Check for example the price of a xaar- or spectra print head, which lasts longer than an epson.

Most of the users of this kind of machines will replace the machines frequently because newer machines will have more speed, better printing quality or some other advantage. So the number of older machines in the field will decrease from year to year, the costs for having spare parts available will increase.