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Never come across this before....................

Discussion in 'Dimensional Signs' started by Gino, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Have a customer for some years now, who just asked me, can we do ADA signs ?? Sure. Can you do them in Spanish ?? Wel........ sure, I think.

    It's too early to call my vendors, but is braille available in Spanish ?? Afterall, it is American disability act. Not sure if anyone is set up for Spanish.

    Part two is....... these signs are to go along a nature trail, explaining what the various plants and trees are. I have no problem with what anyone wants to do with their free time, but if you're blind and can't see, but can read this abbreviated form of braille...... how can you associate it with what you can't see ?? The smells will be overwhelming, so that can't help.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
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  2. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    Spanish have braille. Their alphabet has some differences but you might find a company that has the interpretation and they could produce it for you.
    Now Chinese or Araibic would cause a problem.
     
  3. DPD

    DPD Member

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    Software produces the braille so any letters that are keyed in will be in the braille. They do have those tilde and accents but I would suppose since the software is reading the keyboard the special characters would also be applied. Assuming you're not doing the ADA and are sending it off then this would be the concern of the company making the signs. There is one thing to watch out for and that's dialect. I had a shop a few years back that was in a mixed neighborhood. There were many different types of Spanish speaking people and the dialects are different. I had a neighborhood guy do a translation and my friends wife said it wasn't readable by all Spanish speakers so we had our customer submit the Spanish. I asked my friend's wife to give it a look-see and we found it was not Castillian but Columbian (which she is). I dunno, perhaps that's more universal?

    At the end of the day if you are not making the signs the most you might be concerned about is the dialect. The ADA company will probably take care of that also since you need a kind of 'universal' Spanish.
     
  4. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    This is kind of like the question I have with the drive-through ATM at the bank having braille on it.
     
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  5. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    The one by the headphone jack? Yeah, ya see, when the hard of hearing roll up to an ATM, and they have a hard time hearing what the sign says, they can simply read the braille, so they know where to plug their headphones in! It's a really engenius system, the only real issue is how they lack the initiative to include those suffering from anosmia in the ADA.
    I'd be wary of sending off braille copy in spanish without some confirmation from the manufacturer that they have the capability to do spanish in grade II braille. In all honesty, I've never heard any complaints across the board (typos, incorrect abbreviations, incorrect placement/spacing), so nobody will ever likely complain that they read grade I braille on a sign in the woods, but don't let them charge you double without a statement concerning their braille grade capabilities.
     
  6. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    So far, nobody knows of braille for spanish signs. Regular braille, but not the abbreviated version.

    I do know about all the various spellings for spanish. Our area is very very heavy in spanish and whether you have it written by mexicans, columbians, puerto ricans or argentinians, they all spell things differently and even have differences in certain words. Speaking is one thing, but most can't even read spanish, let alone braille.

    Still trying, though.
     
  7. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    As long as the vendor has Spanish braille fonts, they should be able to reproduce it. If they want to do it manually, they can Wikipedia Spanish Braille and see what to use for the special characters. They have a chart.

    I would put the text of the Spanish wording onto the customer. Just as they are providing the wording of the English text, they need to provide the wording of the Spanish text.
     
  8. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Wait, I call vendors at the drop of a hat to see what's possible. Why is this too early?
     
  9. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    It was around 5:30 when I was putting this together. Not quite 7 when I wrote here. Most vendors don't start getting back to ya til after 8 and I was champing at the bit.

    So far, no one has a definitive answer. Not really.

    The spanish wording will be on the customer, that's a given, but there is no braille version for these kinda signs, that I know of. I've been checking on this and all I can find is sign language which is done with the hands and facial gestures. As for tactile type, nada.

    You do realize that the braille on our American ADA signs is not that of the regular braille most blind people use. It is a special formulated version..... an abbreviated version. Of all the braille reading people in our country, only about 10% can read this ADA version. This is one of the things which makes this whole deal tough. Words, braille and sizes are different which makes reading this much more difficult than how they were taught. Certain limitations and certain contractions are even involved. They did a lotta work revamping this, but it does make things more difficult than one thinks about this stuff.​
     
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  10. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Oh, early, I thought you meant early. (like early in the project planning stage)

    Yeah, Grade II vs Grade I. Grade II will do contractions for stuff like two L's, sh, all sorts of stuff. My understanding is Grade I braille is literally s.p.e.l.l.i.n.g every word out, where Grade II would be half as long, and is more easily read than Grade I when you've grown up blind reading braille.
    We make it all in house (with a fancy version of gravostyle and a couple thousand dollar dongle to run it), but I wasn't aware that ADA braille is actually harder to read than 'regular braille.' Off to wikipedia!
     
  11. Geneva Olson

    Geneva Olson Expert Storyteller

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    I have no help for you but I'm quickly learning that SIGNS101 is better entertainment than facebook...at least it feels REAL. thanks for the visual.

    on that note, I was a teacher prior to opening my sign shop. I worked in a school that was 65% hispanic kids. They were legal but their parents were not. So, their parents taught them to SPEAK spanish in the home but they didn't know how to READ spanish. The kids were introduced directly into ESL programs when they started school. Of course there were some who were special education. In a meeting we had, one teacher was advocating for a student to have a spanish- english dictionary. I asked him if he could read spanish and the boy said, "no". Well, no need for the dictionary then.
     
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  12. BobM

    BobM Very Active Member

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    I would just call Tiffiney @ compliance sign. She has been very helpful to me. Just takes a minute.
     
  13. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    I don't think there is a contracted form of Spanish Braille.
     
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  14. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Member

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    You guys are making this too complicated
    I speak and read English and Spanish fluently and in either I'm not worried about " Danger Snakes " " Wheelchair Access" " Bathroom Women " . I make a lot of signs with pictures . Girl man wheelchair no dogs etc. Its all solved quicker than this thread .
     
  15. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Is it 5 o'clock out there ??

    :beer
     
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  16. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    Hey Gino, found the Mexican Braille dots! mexican braille.jpg
     
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  17. MGB_LE

    MGB_LE Member

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    Colex and Accentsignage.com may help.
     
  18. Stacey K

    Stacey K I like making signs

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    I would be happy to ask a friend on this one but the only blind people I know are Hellen Keller, the girl from Little House on the Prairie and Stevie Wonder.

    But here's what I found when I googled blind people - translators!

    https://brailleworks.com/braille/
     
  19. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Well, to bring anyone who cares up to date.........
    • There is no official spanish ADA type braille available
    • They wanted wa-a-a-ay more verbiage on the sign than would fit all the English plus the spanish and still have room for all the braille.
    • It was far too expensive to make ADA stuff for outdoor use, then they could afford.
    • Last, but not least...... there was no reason whatsoever for braille on these signs as to where they were going or being installed along pathways on nature trails.
    So, we're just doing regular signs for them and everyone is now happy.

    The End and it's now considered a happy ending.....................​
     
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  20. Stacey K

    Stacey K I like making signs

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    That's great! It's nice they thought to include everyone but...not many blind people hike alone, at least I wouldn't think.
     
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