New 360 coming... now I have cold feet

[Drip Dry]

Was going to buy the l310, but decided to go all in with the 360.

Waiting for it to arrive. Have a few questions so I can sleep at night.

First, a little back story.
Found out a few years ago, the power company was charging us a premium and surcharge for using
too much power. It's called demand. We had a demand meter in place, and everytime we went over a certain peak, we were charged extra. The only way to get off, was to keep it under the peak for one full year.
We changed the lighting, we turned everything off when not in use, and finally shut down the air unit on the roof and went with a split heat pump system.
This fixed the problem and have been off the demand since November. Our electric bills used to be in the 350.00 range. This month was 133.00

Anyway, now this monster is coming in with 2 - 220 outlets... heaters, dryers. OMG... what did I get myself into.

Am I going back on demand ?

Why can't it have a simple 110 outlet like my Roland

Can I shut it down when not using it, or does it need to be constantly on the keep the heads from drying out or something.

=============================================
And one other question:
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When we got our Roland about 10 years ago, I remember it being a pain to hit certain colors. It took months to figure out how to get the colors.
I'm hoping that out of the box this new printer will print good. ( I mean great ) I see in another thread that everyone is working with profiles. Do I have to fiddle with all the settings or can it print from the canned profiles that are supplied

Somebody please tell me I made the right decision

 

[Techman]

its a matter of watts.

110 or 220 volts makes not much difference.

Find out how many watts it takes to run the thing. Then you can figure it out from there.

I would estimate the power consumption is very low while in idle. I would plan to run all the printing at one time rather than one now and one in an hour. Once the dryers are heated up,,, keep it hot.

Then determine if your electrical rates are lower at night, and if they are higher during certain peak hours.

Adjust accordingly.

 

[Stephenedwardgraphic]

First -- You are going to love it. No worries.

We haven't seen our electricity bill go up much -- been running ours for almost a year now. In the winter we found our heating bill actually went down because the printer keeps the workshop warmer. When not using, I keep ours turned on -- it goes into a sleep mode. Best thing we purchased for our business. I was running it 10 minutes ago and thinking about how much I love it! Way better than the used Mutoh Falcon I started with!

 

[player]

This is the power consumption:

4.6 KW printing
85 watts ready
2.5 watts sleep

Roland SP540V power consumption:
1085 watts or less printing
29 watts or less sleeping

Roland VS540i power consumption:
995 watts printing
15 watts sleeping

At 4.6 KW printing it will cost about 4 times as much to run as a Roland 54" printer.
Or a bit more than printing with 4 Roland printers at once.

 

[ddarlak]

just went through a few years of electric bills pre and post l25500 purchase.

average pre was about $85 average, post purchase was about $120

I would say i am a light to medium user, there are times it runs all day-everyday and times it doesn't runs for a week or so.

 

[Drip Dry]

First -- You are going to love it. No worries.

This is what I want to hear.

At 4.6 KW printing it will cost about 4 times as much to run as a Roland 54" printer.
Or a bit more than printing with 4 Roland printers at once.

Not what I want to hear

I would say i am a light to medium user, there are times it runs all day-everyday and times it doesn't runs for a week or so.

This is about the same for me.

I don't care too much about the higher usage. I just don't want to hit the peak again and get slapped with the demand
meter again. That was a killer.

Anyway, it comes Monday and installation is Wednesday


Ps. on the question of print quality... do you think I'll be able to get decent prints right out of the box, or will I find
myself fiddling with profiles. I'm going to be sending from Flexi instead of Versaworks. Whenever I send from Flexi to the Roland now, the print quality is nowhere near as good as Versaworks

 

[P Wagner]

Ps. on the question of print quality... do you think I'll be able to get decent prints right out of the box, or will I find
myself fiddling with profiles. I'm going to be sending from Flexi instead of Versaworks. Whenever I send from Flexi to the Roland now, the print quality is nowhere near as good as Versaworks

The Latex 300 Series machines are inherently different from halftone printers like the various models of Roland, Mimaki, and Mutoh.
As such, the Latex 300s are able to use a common and standard media profile using a file format called OMS files. This makes the printer more responsible for color, and the RIP correspondingly less responsible, when this format is used. The Latex 360 also is able to generate custom media profiles that are external to the RIP, using an entirely on-board profile creation capability.

I am confident that you will love the Latex 360 after you get it set-up and begin working with it.

 

[GAC05]

Sounds like once you plug it in you can prop your feet up on it and get rid of the cold.

Good luck with the new gear.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[petesign]

Our power bill here is like 700 a month. I need to move!

 

[Gino]

I'm not sure if this is how it works or not anymore, but we looked into this, years ago. Demand power is actually cheaper in the long run, unless you have a lot of different things happening all day long.

Demand is determined on your highest usage of power in any given 15 minute increment throughout an entire month. Then the rest of the bill is based on that count. So, if you come in the shop in the morning and turn all the lights on, the heater, the compressor, the radio, computers and machines all with in 15 minutes, that will surely be your biggest pull at any given time. However, if you turn things on systematically, it will be based again, on your largest pull.

So, if you have 20 machines using X amount of electric and others using this and that and they never go off, it's a great way to pay. Any small shop such as you are describing should not consider demand type billing.


Congrats on the purchase, don't worry, it'll all work out.

 

[Drip Dry]

The Latex 300 Series machines are inherently different from halftone printers like the various models of Roland, Mimaki, and Mutoh.
As such, the Latex 300s are able to use a common and standard media profile using a file format called OMS files. This makes the printer more responsible for color, and the RIP correspondingly less responsible, when this format is used. The Latex 360 also is able to generate custom media profiles that are external to the RIP, using an entirely on-board profile creation capability.

I am confident that you will love the Latex 360 after you get it set-up and begin working with it.

Thank You for the info

Sounds like once you plug it in you can prop your feet up on it and get rid of the cold.

Good luck with the new gear.


wayne k
guam usa

This is what I'm thinking

Our power bill here is like 700 a month. I need to move!

I'm serious. I was shocked to get a bill for 133.00. I should be able to stay in business another month

I'm not sure if this is how it works or not anymore, but we looked into this, years ago. Demand power is actually cheaper in the long run, unless you have a lot of different things happening all day long.

Demand is determined on your highest usage of power in any given 15 minute increment throughout an entire month. Then the rest of the bill is based on that count. So, if you come in the shop in the morning and turn all the lights on, the heater, the compressor, the radio, computers and machines all with in 15 minutes, that will surely be your biggest pull at any given time. However, if you turn things on systematically, it will be based again, on your largest pull.

So, if you have 20 machines using X amount of electric and others using this and that and they never go off, it's a great way to pay. Any small shop such as you are describing should not consider demand type billing.


Congrats on the purchase, don't worry, it'll all work out.

Been here for 18 years. Didn't have a clue that I even had a demand meter until a customer told me he moved to a new location and it already had one. I must have inherited it when I moved in, or they just added it without me knowing.

The way I understand it works is based on peek usage. If I go over a certain number ( in my case 7.0 ) then I am on the demand system for 1 year more. When my bill comes in September for instance, I get charged all the normal charges as well as whatever the demand is plus 80% of last Septembers demand amount. It usually worked out to about 60.00 to 90.00 a month more. If I can keep the peek under 7.0 for 1 year, they take me off. I also was being charged as a Commercial large
rate and was lowered to commercial small rate when they removed the demand. The meter is the same. They just changed it from the office. So, if I start going over the peek again, I think they would just turn it back on again.

So, you see why my concern. But it's too late now. I did the dirty deed. It's coming Monday, and I'm still excited even if it's going to start costing me a bundle again

 

[Hotspur]

Common Mistake

This is the power consumption:

4.6 KW printing
85 watts ready
2.5 watts sleep

Roland SP540V power consumption:
1085 watts or less printing
29 watts or less sleeping

Roland VS540i power consumption:
995 watts printing
15 watts sleeping

At 4.6 KW printing it will cost about 4 times as much to run as a Roland 54" printer.
Or a bit more than printing with 4 Roland printers at once.

I see this kind of mistake made all over these boards.

Power consumption is a measure of usage OVER TIME.

4.6KW/h i.e 4.6KW every hour.

The Latex 360 prints most substrates perfectly with no banding at 17sqm/h - this is the normal expected production speed.

For the SP540 the equivalent quality production speed is 4.8sqm/h (720x720)

Thus the Latex 360 will finish the same job nearly 3.5 times quicker - thus using nearly exactly the same power as the Roland!

So in essence one L360 will print nearly the same amount of work as 4 of these Rolands for about the same power consumption...It's a no-brainer even ignoring all the other advantages of Latex over solvent.

By the way check out the differences in power consumption whilst sleeping - the Rolands have to stay awake to pour your valuble ink through the heads into the waste tank all day & night...

However in your position where peak usage also has a penalty then yes the peak will be higher so you may need to review your supplier.

 

[player]

I see this kind of mistake made all over these boards.

Power consumption is a measure of usage OVER TIME.

What mistake? It is obvious it is per hour. It is not per second, or per minute...


4.6KW/h i.e 4.6KW every hour.

The Latex 360 prints most substrates perfectly with no banding at 17sqm/h - this is the normal expected production speed.

For the SP540 the equivalent quality production speed is 4.8sqm/h (720x720)

Thus the Latex 360 will finish the same job nearly 3.5 times quicker - thus using nearly exactly the same power as the Roland!

So in essence one L360 will print nearly the same amount of work as 4 of these Rolands for about the same power consumption...It's a no-brainer even ignoring all the other advantages of Latex over solvent.


The Roland printers use about the same power, so if you want to compare output, pick a better solvent machine.
Also the specs from HP are not saying what the resolution is. It may be comparable, but printer manufacturers like
to fudge those numbers...

There is also the warm up time which I understand is much longer than solvent printers.


By the way check out the differences in power consumption whilst sleeping - the Rolands have to stay awake to pour your valuble ink through the heads into the waste tank all day & night...

The Roland printers do not stay awake pouring out ink day and night. Period. Seriously that is a very off base statement.
They go into a sleep mode.



However in your position where peak usage also has a penalty then yes the peak will be higher so you may need to review your supplier.

There are advantages to both systems. It is good to know what they are, and pick the system that is best suited to your process.

 

[Hotspur]

The mistake is in your post you have compared the absolute KW requirement from the Roland quoted Vs the Latex - this is not comparable as the Latex will finish the same job much quicker.

Thus it will NOT cost 4 times as much to run as it will be finished nearly 4 times faster - thus your original comparison is misleading if taken at face value with the printers you have used in your example.

The resolution is absolutely comparable (for the record it is 1200dpi print resolution 8 passes on the Latex & 720x720 on the Roland - both the normal production speeds for each printer in your comparison.

The warm up time used to be poor on the Latex - (8 mins sometimes!) but on the 360 it is under 2 mins for comparison.

I've had Roland experience and the regular purging does fill the waste much quicker Vs Latex - you turn the Latex off for weeks if you want when not in use it needs no wiping or spitting.

The Roland and my old Mutoh need to be kept ticking over or the heads have nozzle issues if not used for a number of days & thus the wastage is much more.

You only need to look at the massive discounts Roland and Mimaki currently have to see which technology is struggling to sell - solvent has its place of course but it's days are numbered.

 

[player]

Thanks for the update. Good to know.

 

[Vinyldog]

If it's an Energy Star rated product I wouldn't think it could be that bad.

 

[P Wagner]

The other thing to keep in mind with heater systems is that the maximum amount of energy is used while the heaters are energizing to get to the requisite temperature. Maintaining temperatures at a fixed temp does not require as much energy.

One of the biggest improvements with the Latex 300 series is the speed that the heaters come to print temperatures. In my experience the Latex 360 printer will get to temp in about 90 seconds from a cold start. That is roughly twice as fast to heat up as the various solvent printers that I've used.

 

[Drip Dry]

I wonder if there is such a device that I can plug in between the plug and the wall to measure how much wattage is being used at any given time.

BTW , machine was delivered and up on it's stand today. Waiting for Wednesday for them to finish putting it together and training... Tuesday is
going to be a long day.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I was running (2) L260's for a while, now have (1) L360 and (1) new Epson S70. When I was running the 2 260's, my electric bill didn't vary much then, maybe $30 per month. The nice part was that my biggest gas bill was like $30. My shop is small too, so both of them running kept it warm. It honestly wasn't that much different during the summer with the AC running either.

 

[player]

It won't matter now, you've got the machine!

The more it runs, the better off your bank account will be...
If it runs 10 hours a day, you won't be worried about your electric bill.