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New Computer for 2012

MatthewTimothy

New Member
Matthew,

I do remember my days of building AMD. There was once only a small margin between the two companies and the price advantage of AMD was too much to overlook. But, it seems that since the first generation of "Core" branded Intel chips, I have been hooked on Intel.

I don't want you to think that I was being short and dismissing your opinion, it just differs from mine. I hope that AMD catches up again as it was nice to have options. It just seems that as a company, AMD/ATI needs to get their stuff together and if/when that happens, they have the potential of being a contender again.

nah man its cool, my whole argument for going AMD was the price margin and the quality that can be obtained. From being a shop owner I know I would rather come close to what can be obtained for a fraction of what id pay to go Intel. That was the whole reason for my argument and I was pretty much told I dont know what I'm talking about and given a whole lesson on overclocking. I do know what I'm talking about and for what I can say when building a PC is I would rather drop a grand in a solid PC then look into dropping 2 grand for something that was just a little better to me seems pointless. That is the whole reason behind my initial argument. Then again my whole decision was WAY before the Intel Sandy Bridge market took into affect.
 

royster13

New Member
So when looking at a 100.00 to 150.00 processor, when you put cost equals side by side, which one gives you better bang for the buck?...
 

MatthewTimothy

New Member
So when looking at a 100.00 to 150.00 processor, when you put cost equals side by side, which one gives you better bang for the buck?...

exactly, in my old days (computer humor) before Sandy Bridge it always appeared that AMD was a better choice compared to price over quality gained and until I look into building another design/workstation rig from the ground up I will still feel I received a better deal with AMD. All my workstations are built with the notion that I can upgrade each with DDR3 16gb of RAM, throw a bigger AM3 CPU when they get cheaper and throw in an SSD for pennies. I upgrade partially every two years and so far it has worked great for me.
 

artbot

New Member
my two cents. when it comes to upgrade season all of us graphic artists end up spending $1000 in billable hours looking at photoshop shootouts, cpu benchmarks, losing sleep over all the techy stuff. this year, i am going to plop my money down with my pc guy and tell him to have fun with it. that is what he does for a living, let him do his job and i can convert those lost hour/dollars to more projects going out that month.
 

Techman

New Member
FACTS:
AMD FX-8150 Zambezi 3.6GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop Processor FD8150FRGUBOX going for 269.99.

Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K going for 599.99.

now without the "turbo mode" the I7 still is at 3.2ghz compared to AMD's 3.6ghz out of the box. Furthermore AMD is throwing out eight-cores compared to Intel's six cores. Now if you want to throw the argument over cores into play, here is AMD's Quad Core CPU running 3.6ghz and that wonderful "turbo mode", yah it does turbo mode into 3.8ghz. here


Now we can go on and on all day, but my point is, for the price, you can get a QUALITY rig built with AMD. And again im referencing PRICE. No shop owner in their right mind would want to invest a grand for a something they can hardly tell.

Totally off the context. I was posting about an I7 2600k and a 2700 K
For prices the 2600K is right at 300 bux. 2700K is about 330.

Those two midrange chips are still faster than the FX 8150 AMD bulldozer chip in real world comparisons. The intel desktop midrange chips are crushing the AMD. All the comparisons and benchmarks are comparing the Intel midrange chip. That is a fact.

Furthermore, I mentioned the whole overclocking point was a mere added bonus. Turning a benefit into a negative is beyond all reasoning.. Overclock was not the main focus of what I posted. It was your off topic attempt to go on about overclocking and to attempt the make overclocking into some kind of incompetence in the face of an engineered benefit...

I also posted I have not tweaked my machine because it is as fast as a mouse click. How much faster does a desktop machine have to run? It doesn't even get a full 5 rating. I mean click the Corel draw icon and its open. Yes Click the mouse and its done. Anything faster is invisible. That is why I feel even without using "turbo" without tweaks the Intel chip is the choice for building a machine today. Likewise I built this I7 2600K for ~$800 bucks. How cheap ya want to get?


Now for the AMD being faster out of the box. As I posted above. Of course it is rated faster out of the box. They have one core cranked up at idle. That's right one core runs up its idle speed. Yes, Let me say it again. AMD chips runs up ONE core at high IDLE SPEEDS that makes it appear it is a faster CPU. Actual real world results shows that when that chips runs more cores it actually is SLOWER. Sorry my friend but you need to get your info up to date and together in one pile.


As far as throwing in a few bucks to upgrade a to a newer chip for an AMD system . That business plan went obsolete when win 98 SE went obsolete.
But as I also posted. Do not take my word for it. Google it a little more and get the facts. That is what techs do. They never listen to the hype aimed at the Fanboys.
 

choucove

New Member
The whole AMD vs. Intel debate comes up quite regularly, and it always will. That's because at its core it is a huge part of deciding what is right for your computer needs. Regardless that everyone will have an opinion, and that indeed some hardware will be better than others, the fact is that technology changes quickly. This means that it is GOOD to discuss this because not only does it help to discuss both sides of the story clearly, but it is relevant to address this through time as technologies advance together.

Now, I've always liked AMD. We had all AMD workstations for several years and had wonderful luck with them, and I still have several AMD computers at my own computer business. For many years they provided a level of performance at a price that Intel just could not match, so if you wanted a quad-core processor for cheap, AMD was your way to go. If you were interested in only the fastest and the price didn't matter, then AMD probably didn't fit your bill.

That being said, I have not built an AMD-based system (for myself or any customers) in almost a year. The simple truth is yes, Intel is leading the performance capabilities when it comes to processors. With the release of Sandy Bridge, the performance that could be had even in their cheapest processors was more than anything that AMD could offer at the same price point. It was at this point that AMD lost its price advantage over Intel, and since then they really have taken a hit. Bulldozer was kind of their last ditch effort at rebuilding and making a huge comeback into the desktop processor market, and unfortunately it fell short. In fact, in some ways older Phenom II X6 processors were faster than the newest flagship AMD FX-8150 even though they were lower clock speed and fewer "cores".

After years of having a noticeable market lead over AMD, many technology designers have begun basing their software, their requirements, and their recommendations on Intel platforms and technologies. Because of this some software and drivers on the market have been specifically fine tuned for Intel systems and thus perform better on Intel than on similar AMD platforms. This is part of the reason why so many of the big name computer brands out there like Dell and HP push more Intel systems for their business lines than AMD.

AMD recently announced that they were, in fact, calling it "quits" on trying to beat Intel at the desktop processor market. For the first time, AMD was admitting they were just too far behind Intel. Instead, they will be shifting the majority of their focus to mobile processors and server processors where AMD still has a price and performance advantage over Intel in several ways.

Now, as to the original question for this thread. I've built numerous systems using the Intel Sandy Bridge platform and have been incredibly pleased with the performance, stability, and value that these systems offer. To get the best value and performance you can for your money, though, takes a little bit of knowledge beyond just what components are compatible and aren't. That's why unless you are confident in your own technical skills I'd recommend you contact a professional system builder for help. I know that Casey at Signburst Computers knows his stuff, he's incredibly helpful and knowledgeable in computer systems specifically intended for the sign industry, which many computer builders are not.

If you can assemble a computer confidently, or have someone you know and trust to do it, then you can save yourself some money but you will have the additional tasks of assembling the system, installing software, drivers, etc. and ensuring it is all running properly. For a design system I would recommend a computer based on the Intel Sandy Bridge LGA1155 platform. Before I can help you out in more detail, though, I'd have to know what kind of performance expectations you have as well as what budget you have to work with. After all, while you can get quite a powerful computer for $1,000 today, there's a huge difference if you instead wish to spend $2,000.

If you are only wanting to look into a pre-built system from the big names like Dell or HP, I'd never recommend using a consumer grade computer for business usage. I've spoken directly with Dell support staff several times and I can tell you they do not build their home computer lines with the quality or performance intended for continual business use. There is a difference in a Dell Precision desktop costing $1,500 and a Dell XPS desktop costing $1,500. You are looking at better warranty service for one, but also hardware that is intended for continual daily business usage and higher efficiency. This is especially noticeable when comparing consumer and business laptops, which is why our computer business does not order any consumer laptops for customers and only ever recommend business grade laptops.

Again, while we have heard your intended usage for this computer, there's still some additional information we need to further assist you with your computer needs. Of course the primary question is what kind of budget you are looking to spend. For instance, are you looking to get the best computer you can for under $1,000 or are you more interested in just getting the best system you can so long as its somewhere under $3,000?
 

royster13

New Member
When you look at components for a computer, will there be an indication in the descriptions that tells if the component is consumer or business grade?....
 

choucove

New Member
When you look at components for a computer, will there be an indication in the descriptions that tells if the component is consumer or business grade?....

When it comes directly to the individual computer components, that is hard. Unless you're looking at high-end workstation and server platforms, there's no real "business grade" stuff it's mainly knowing what brands and components are higher performance and quality over other brands and components. This is where it takes a lot of technical skill and experience working with computer hardware.

Generally the difference between consumer grade and business grade is a differentiator used by big names like Dell on pre-built computers. The physical difference in components though within these pre-built computers are higher quality and higher output power supplies on business class desktops, with higher quality faster RAM and motherboards built on chipsets which support more features or higher performance components.

Then, there are actual "business grade" hardware components. This would be when you are comparing a Supermicro server motherboard to an ASRock desktop motherboard. Another example would be a Seagate SAS 15k hard drive compared to a Western Digital Green low power SATA hard drive. It can take quite a bit of time researching and learning about computer systems to know how to differentiate these kinds of hardware.
 

Techman

New Member
If you can assemble a computer confidently, or have someone you know and trust to do it, then you can save yourself some money but you will have the additional tasks of assembling the system, installing software, drivers, etc. and ensuring it is all running properly.

I agree 100%. The newest motherboards and latest chips are sophisticated combinations with an abundance of options. As I also posted recently,, the latest build I assembled was a challenge even with years of computer experience.

For example... For some... Not knowing it would take two or three reboots and a button push before the system would even post would have thrown the average home builder into a grand mall hissy fit..
 

royster13

New Member
I started assembling my parts...Did a "outside" build on my desk.....With all the pieces together (eventually found the little speaker in the case box instead of motherboard box) I shorted out the power button and got a "beep" (what a thrill) and saw the bios working...

Then put together all the parts inside the case...I used a used 500gb hard drive....The HD is less than a couple years old and worked fine in my other desktop Win 7.0 computer.....Bios sees it but Win 7.0 would not install to it...

So after 4 or 5 hours I installed a 10 year old 80gb IDE drive and Win 7.0 installed fine (just slow)...My new build sees 500gb drive, reads it, installs other programs to it...But no go on installing Win 7.0 to it...

Been through a bunch of websites looking for a solution.....Changed BIOS settings, updated drivers, checked all connections, etc., etc....Now I am just waiting for the 500gb hard drive to reformat.....

Any other ideas?....
 

choucove

New Member
In your BIOS settings, what do you have the SATA operation set as? Usually this will be an option of IDE, AHCI, or RAID. Most of the time we have had good luck with Windows 7 having default drivers to support drives set in AHCI mode (which is recommended for a single SATA hard drive) but sometimes you have to load additional drivers for the hard drive to be recognized for installation.

What hardware models are you using to assemble this computer? That might help us with figuring out more information to assist you.
 

royster13

New Member
I have tried every setting there is in my BIOS.....

Asus M4A88T-M motherboard....
Seagate 500gb hard drive....
AMD Athlon X4 640....
Ripjaws F3-10666CL9D-8Gb XL ram (2 x 4)....
Samsung CD/DVD - Black SATA Model SH-222AB - OEM....
COOLER MASTER Elite 460 RS-460-PSAR-J3 460W ATX12V V2.31 Power Supply....

I will have to check model number of HD once the reformat finishes.....

Thanks for the help...

I found this page after I tried some other stuff... http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927520

I went through every item listed in device manager and updated drivers.....
 

Techman

New Member
in bios.
you have several choices. Mixing an old ide drive with a sata drive can cause some challenges.
There may be a setting that says mixed mode or combination mode or all sata or all ide. Somewhere in there you will select a mixed mode. That will allow you to run a sata drive and the older ide drives in combination.
 

royster13

New Member
Bios sees the drive.....Device manager sees the drive....Speccy sees the drive....Doing a full "Write Zeros" to see what happens....Might be something a little off in SATA drive...

Out of curiosity I installed another old IDE drive in my other computer which has a SATA drive as well and Win 7.0 installed fine....I just had to make computer boot off the DVD and set it to install to IDE drive...Did not have to change any settings in BIOS at all...
 

OldPaint

New Member
old adage i was told by a computer program back when i got my 1st 386dx40........your computer really only needs to as fast as your slowest Peripheral)))))
i have had mostly AMD chiped computers. 2 INTEL. they were both laptops. so they were natually slower. so every time i rebuild totally, i prefer AMD. big reason is most new/great processors..........CAN BE PUT ON OLDER M/B. so rather then up grade everything, just swap out processor. i built a 2.8 quad core AMD on a gigibyte M/B i think 2 years ago.what is neat, i can add SSD drive, and i can also upgrade to the 8 core CPU..........without a total reincarnation. do i need an I7? do i want to spend $1000's of dollars for speed that i cant see? i dont think so. i did my last computer, everything new.......for under $400!!!! and i can go to the AMD 8 CORE........$269.00 now thats what i like)))))))
 
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