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New equipment purchase for a new print shop

altereddezignz

New Member
Hello again guys. Well most everyone has read my other posts about the issues that we had before with the used equipment we purchased on the mutoh 1324. Well we have all of our equipment sold. Printer, laminator, plotter and everything. With that being said we are trying to figure out what to buy new and hopefully able to find some sort of package deal if we can. If not that is fine as well.

Still wanting to go back with a 54 printer as we have a massive amount of media for a 54.
Will still being doing vehicle wraps along with any other type of sign we can print and make.

Should we stay with solvent ink or go with latex? I have been told roland brand is what i need to go with but looking for overall information on printers and such. Laminators and any info on plotters. The Q54 we have now has done us great and is not a bad plotter for the price.

So any help would be great-full!!!!!!
 
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spmracing

Guest
I'm not going to comment on the whole latex versus ecosolvent but please buy a 64" printer. You'll thank me in the long run.

That being said I have a 1624 that i absolutely love. Have had it two years now with not a single issue or downtime. Purchased through fellers after trading in my 1204.
 

bigben

Not a newbie
I've had roland and mimaki printers in the past and used roland and graphtec cutter. My current setup is a HP latex printer with a summa cutter and it's the best setup I ever got.
 

Turbo518

New Member
A year ago I bought a new Roland vs-540i with metallic and 54'' seal laminator and have a no complaints at all!
 

altereddezignz

New Member
I see there is a lot of debate on the whole latex vs eco solvent out there. I have no idea and ill be the first to admit that.

So can someone help me with the [FONT=proxima-nova, arial, sans-serif]VS-640i vs the EJ-640 or the XF-640.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima-nova, arial, sans-serif]I know the 640I has the built in plotter yet i know i will still want an additional plotter.

You read one place like roland that gives you a cost comparison to the latex and eco ink and the eco is better and cheaper in long term scale. Then another brand will give u another comparison yet since thier printer is a latex it comes out with better numbers lol..

This sucks haha.

This dont even take into consideration what plotter and or laminator to buy haha...
Bad part is we have no one local to us to help as in like distributors and salesmen..
[/FONT]
 

ExecuPrintGS

New Member
+1 for the 60+" printer, if you are going to be doing wraps you will enjoy the larger size. You can still run smaller media on it and utilize what you already have, but the ability to go just a bit bigger on wraps and banners is a huge plus.
 

reQ

New Member
+1 for 64" printer. They are not much more than 54, specially if you do lots of wraps.
 

ProColorGraphics

New Member
I have both a HP 360 and an Epson S70. They both have their place. If you absolutely have to laminate right away, latex might be better for you. When doing cheap outdoor signs, like yard signs, I like to use the latex as it doesn't make the adhesive on the vinyl as gooey. But when quality is the key factor, I go with my Epson as they quality is absolutely amazing!! I do have the white white and silver as well and starting to use them more and more. BUT, keep in mind, if you don't use them a lot, you will be wasting a lot with cleanings (the only downfall in my opinion). If I had to pick one, I would probably go with the Epson. Epson also just released info on the new models that are coming out. I hear they are going to be awesome, but I don't think they are shipping until later this spring.
 
You read one place like roland that gives you a cost comparison to the latex and eco ink and the eco is better and cheaper in long term scale. Then another brand will give u another comparison yet since thier printer is a latex it comes out with better numbers.

That is their marketing groups at work in each case. They are going to each spin their version of reality to their product's advantage.

That does not mean that everything is subjective. Everyone has their experience and opinions, and I am certainly no exception. And since you asked...

You are no longer a brand new user, and you have extensive experience with ownership of a solvent printer. What no one can dispute is that there are a lot of resources (in both time and money) that will be put into the maintenance of any solvent printer over it's lifespan of 5+ years. You learned that lesson (the hard way) with your Mutoh. The reality is that all solvent printers, across all models, are a lot more similar than different from each other in terms of maintenance patterns. Cleaning solution, swabs, wipers, captops, maintenance stations, pumps, dampers, and sometimes printheads, etc are all replaced by the user over time.

The HP Latex user experience (from a maintenance perspective) is the direct opposite. There is literally no scheduled maintenance with the HP Latex machines. The printer is much more self-aware, and thus self-maintaining. On those occasions where it needs something from the user, it will alert the operator via the printer's control panel. And those occasions are typically a handful of times in a year, depending on print volume. The HP Latex machines can sit for an extended period (in sleep mode for weeks) without manual intervention or cleaning, and produce a sell-able print on demand. When a printhead fails, and they will, it is a 10 minute procedure to get back into production. The only other consumables are ink carts and a maintenance cartridge. All are simple and quick (< 10 minutes) to replace, and the printer alerts the user when to do so.

The other key area where the HP Latex (specifically the 360 and 370) is different from any solvent printer is that the Latex machines are able to generate a complete media profile on-board the printer, without the need for any external measurement devices. This has been done to make the profiling process much easier and faster for the average user of the printer. There is no question that HP has succeeded at achieving that goal. On opaque medias (vinyls, banner, film, paper etc), a complete media profile can be completed in well less than one hour of machine time (and with only perhaps 15 minutes of user time). Color management consultants can and will argue and debate about the quality of the resulting media profile, and that is a valid discussion, but no one (with any credibility) would argue that the resulting custom profile is inferior to the use of a canned (pre-built) media profile. And the reality is that most users are using canned profiles.

These are not subjective opinions. Do your own research, there are a lot of resources out there. And don't forget the important role that the reseller plays in this. They are the first line of support with setup and training for any machine. Good luck and happy printing.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
We us Fellers for most of our media and tools as they have beat most prices on the market. I can buy a mutoh printer, seal laminator and a mutoh plotter. I have never used the mutoh plotter so i am not sure about that one. I know we like out 1324 if it was not for the small issues we have from the prior owner doing 0 maintenance and neglecting the printer so bad.
This is one reason i do like the mutoh is bc it was able to be revived. Now with that being said Fellers customer service is CRAZY great in our opinion.. This is one of the main reasons i looked at possibly buying it all from them. But then i would be stuck with a mutoh and i am as well looking at a roland b/c based from our 1324 the new roland printers offer a greater and brighter color than what i am getting. Now this may also just be my printer and be a result of prior issues. The roland's seem to be able to get very bright neon almost greens, and oranges. The new mutoh's may be able to do this as you are able to configure more than just cmyk that and they would be about 4-5 years newer.


Now these were all solvent based. I had for the most part talked myself out of a latex mid last year when we looked at a new printer before fixing the mutoh 1324 we have.

I am trying to do my research i just wanted the option of people who ahve used them and been in this market a lot longer than i have been.
 
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spmracing

Guest
We us Fellers for most of our media and tools as they have beat most prices on the market. I can buy a mutoh printer, seal laminator and a mutoh plotter. I have never used the mutoh plotter so i am not sure about that one. I know we like out 1324 if it was not for the small issues we have from the prior owner doing 0 maintenance and neglecting the printer so bad.
This is one reason i do like the mutoh is bc it was able to be revived. Now with that being said Fellers customer service is CRAZY great in our opinion.. This is one of the main reasons i looked at possibly buying it all from them. But then i would be stuck with a mutoh and i am as well looking at a roland b/c based from our 1324 the new roland printers offer a greater and brighter color than what i am getting. Now this may also just be my printer and be a result of prior issues. The roland's seem to be able to get very bright neon almost greens, and oranges. The new mutoh's may be able to do this as you are able to configure more than just cmyk that and they would be about 4-5 years newer.


Now these were all solvent based. I had for the most part talked myself out of a latex mid last year when we looked at a new printer before fixing the mutoh 1324 we have.

I am trying to do my research i just wanted the option of people who ahve used them and been in this market a lot longer than i have been.


The main reason I purchase everything from fellers is there outstanding service over the years. If there has ever been a problem it has been a no questions asked solution. The new mutohs have great colors and I have not had any issues with that. That being said the roland printer is an awesome printer too. For me it all came down to customer service, quality, and price. Fellers has great tech support too (i've been told.. I haven't had to call once in two years since i got my printer..)
 

altereddezignz

New Member
The main reason I purchase everything from fellers is there outstanding service over the years. If there has ever been a problem it has been a no questions asked solution. The new mutohs have great colors and I have not had any issues with that. That being said the roland printer is an awesome printer too. For me it all came down to customer service, quality, and price. Fellers has great tech support too (i've been told.. I haven't had to call once in two years since i got my printer..)

They have been really good to us so far. I would really like a roland but have had good luck with our mutoh even though how it started life out with us lol..

Does anyone have an comparative input between a roland and a mutoh. Granted i know how hard that will be since they are a large difference in versions.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
We do have another dealer that is about an hour and half away that deals with roland, graphtec, seal and some others called Tubelite.
Im going to check in with them.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
There is a local guy who does some wraps that is able to get really bright neon almost greens and crazy bright oranges. All he will tell me is it is a roland. This is what i am looking for. Will the light magenta, light black and so on colors help achieve these colors?
 
There is a local guy who does some wraps that is able to get really bright neon almost greens and crazy bright oranges. All he will tell me is it is a roland. This is what i am looking for. Will the light magenta, light black colors help achieve these colors?

No, the colors you mention do not add anything to the overall gamut.
 

bilge

New Member
Could you at Oki colorpainter W64s and give your opinion pls? I had 3 Mimakis, 2 Rolands. But I'm really tired of all those dampers, wipers, cap top, pumps and rediculiuosly expensive printheads. I've seen Hp Latex in China exhibitions, but they use it only on wallpapers. W64s is not sold in China, maybe I need to go to Russia for 7hours airborne. I'm located in dark side of the earth. Just sold last Roland, keeping HPZ6100 and HPD5800 both 60". Ppl above here said right 54" is bit smaller.
 
Could you at Oki colorpainter W64s and give your opinion pls? I had 3 Mimakis, 2 Rolands. But I'm really tired of all those dampers, wipers, cap top, pumps and rediculiuosly expensive printheads. I've seen Hp Latex in China exhibitions, but they use it only on wallpapers. W64s is not sold in China, maybe I need to go to Russia for 7hours airborne. I'm located in dark side of the earth. Just sold last Roland, keeping HPZ6100 and HPD5800 both 60". Ppl above here said right 54" is bit smaller.

The Okidata ColorPainters are good solvent printers (manufactured by Seiko). However, being solvent machines, they too contain every one of the same components that you are so tired of, including the 'ridiculously expensive printheads'.

If you are looking for an outdoor-durable printer that can print on virtually all of the same medias that solvent ink does (as well as many others that solvent ink cannot) but lacks all of the above items (dampers, captops, cleaning swabs, cleaning fluid, and ridiculously expensive printheads), there is only one viable option on the market today: HP Latex printers.

They print on the same medias that eco-solvent devices do, including virtually all self-adhesive vinyls and banner vinyls. And as you mention, they also print on a huge range of wallcoverings medias, plus polyester fabrics, cotton textiles, coated and uncoated papers, polyethylene and polypropylene, polyester films, and so on.

But the best part of Latex is that you will never again have to swab and sweat, wash and wait, and purge and pray that you can recover enough nozzles to deliver a salable print. The worst-case scenario with HP Latex is ~10 minutes to swap an inexpensive printhead (they are a user-replaced consumable), and you're good to go.

Happy printing!

Paul
 

altereddezignz

New Member
So let me ask this. How does the color prints compare hand for hand to a solvent print. I see you have to change the print heads out but can anyone who has a latex give me real life experience compared to a solvent. Used for wraps, canvas prints, banners, poster paper, things like that. I like the idea of no wait time but I am not willing to buy one to try it out. I would love to know the real life cost difference. I know electrical cost will be more but what about ink, print heads for. The latex and so on.

With that being said and back to. The at the color gamut question how are they getting these crazy bright greens and oranges. Lol. Solvent or latex.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
It is possible I am. Missing something as well. But on that note dies having the capability to add the light colors help woth print colors and quality or is it just a gimic.
 
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