New Logo For Customer

[MotorCityMan]

Either I'm really stoopid or you are.

If someone has the ability to put on paper with pencil or pen... a rendering and create something..... that's considered drawing from scratch so to speak. Sure, you can look at a picture and draw from it. Done that myself many times for gridding out small drawings to make into large ones. Although at some point you are adding the touch of a pencil, marker pen or something, you then scan it in and tweak it. Nothing really wrong with that, either, unless you take the credit for the original and pass it off as being your own creation. Simply tracing or blowing up is not drawing... at least not in my book.

The main reason for my observations are quite few and simple. It doesn't take a lot to see through things.

If you had the artistic ability to do what you say you're doing, you wouldn't have such obviously bad drawings overlooking some of the most basics of drawing 101.

• You have several light sources.
• You use far too many styles/techniques which none of them are at all your own.
• Your use of elements in one design doesn't follow suit with another design.
• In other words.... you're all over the place and it looks like a clear use of borrowing of many works being compiled into your homemade version.
• The other day, you had a tiger with human eyes and walrus whiskers. Even in cartoon effect, you didn't notice it... or comment on it.
• Taking poetic license is one thing, but doing things wrong, having them pointed out to you and your denying and getting all full of yourself.... why should anyone want to help you ??

Kinda like a Frankenstein... and we all know how that turned out.

It's far easier to help someone that is being honest and on the level. Then... and only then can we help you. That is where the teaching/suggesting/help can begin.... once we know your true capabilities. Until then, we don't know where you're coming from.

I'm sorry if I have you pegged wrong, but if you'd like to talk to me in private or convince me, it will only take a few minutes. I'll gladly retract any or all of my statements towards you at that point.
​

I posted a pic of the hand drawn tiger you spoke of. It may not be good, I may not be a great artist like you, but I'm doing the best I can and I'm here to try and get better. I considering drawing with a stylus a form of art just like a pencil. I don't feel the need to convince you of anything. If you don't like it don't open my posts. I'm not being dishonest and I admit I don't know all the right terms yet. But I will get better. Sorry if you didn't like the design but it is what my customer likes.

 

[Deaton Design]

Gino if what you say is true, Ive been doing it all wrong. Many times I have looked at a picture of something and drew it, then scanned that in and vectored to be used on a sign. Id say almost everyone here has done that. There is nothing wrong with that. The ability to draw from life doesnt come that easy either. Those that can do it make use of it. Drawing from scratch is a whole different thing. Using no reference material at all is hard for anyone. If he drew the tools shown in his logo by merely looking at them, he did a good job. Even tracing them they look good. I really dont see what all the hoopla is about. His logo looks okay, but I agree with the advice that the wording is hid and should be shown. Other than that, I think its a pretty good stab at it.

 

[kylebrk]

I posted a pic of the hand drawn tiger you spoke of. It may not be good, I may not be a great artist like you, but I'm doing the best I can and I'm here to try and get better. I considering drawing with a stylus a form of art just like a pencil. I don't feel the need to convince you of anything. If you don't like it don't open my posts. I'm not being dishonest and I admit I don't know all the right terms yet. But I will get better. Sorry if you didn't like the design but it is what my customer likes.

I think you're close. Im assuming you're not charging a bunch since you just started. If you charged under $300 for this, they're getting a good deal.

I would take away the effects on the lettering and make the tools smaller. You might consider taking out the lettering going around the saw blade altogether. Logos need to be recognizable, recreatable (not a real word!), and easily read. The words make it too busy. The effects on the name make it hard to distinguish.

Also, realize that guys here have devoted their entire careers to doing what you're trying to. When someone reaches a high level, they often forget what it took to get there.

One of my favorite preachers of all time consistently talks about how horrific he was when he started out. It's just a learning process. It takes time. Take your lumps and you'll come out okay.

fyi, I sold two logo packages yesterday and today for $2k. Work your butt off and your reputation will make you money.

 

[kylebrk]

Gino if what you say is true, Ive been doing it all wrong. Many times I have looked at a picture of something and drew it, then scanned that in and vectored to be used on a sign. Id say almost everyone here has done that. There is nothing wrong with that. The ability to draw from life doesnt come that easy either. Those that can do it make use of it. Drawing from scratch is a whole different thing. Using no reference material at all is hard for anyone. If he drew the tools shown in his logo by merely looking at them, he did a good job. Even tracing them they look good. I really dont see what all the hoopla is about. His logo looks okay, but I agree with the advice that the wording is hid and should be shown. Other than that, I think its a pretty good stab at it.

+1

 

[2NinerNiner2]

Gino if what you say is true, Ive been doing it all wrong. Many times I have looked at a picture of something and drew it, then scanned that in and vectored to be used on a sign. Id say almost everyone here has done that. There is nothing wrong with that. The ability to draw from life doesnt come that easy either. Those that can do it make use of it. Drawing from scratch is a whole different thing. Using no reference material at all is hard for anyone. If he drew the tools shown in his logo by merely looking at them, he did a good job. Even tracing them they look good. I really dont see what all the hoopla is about. His logo looks okay, but I agree with the advice that the wording is hid and should be shown. Other than that, I think its a pretty good stab at it.

+2

 

[Joe Diaz]

I think you have a few nice ideas for this layout. I realize that the job has been approved and you will probably move on, but if I could offer a few points, you may try practicing on this design.

I agree that the sub text or list of services following the curve of the circle should not be covered up. No point in having a list if people can't read it at all.

The main copy would stand out more if the banner behind it were a darker color.

The black jagged shading on the tools, would work so much better if it were the light grey instead.

Same goes for the jagged shading on the main copy. Also you may want to match the thickness of the "jags" on the lettering so that it closer matches the tools, or lose that effect on the text all together. Try that on the same effect on the banner. It will pull the whole thing together.

Be mindful of contrast. Bad contrast can really kill a design. The old design actually reads a bit better. If you stick around long enough, you'll hear people use the words "squint test" if you haven't heard that already. If a design can pass the squint test, meaning you squint your eyes while looking at the design and you can still make out all the elements, then your design will have strong use of contrast.

Keep at it though. Practice, Practice, Practice.... everyone has to do it, so don't let people discourage you if this is something you truly want to do.

 

[MotorCityMan]

I think you have a few nice ideas for this layout. I realize that the job has been approved and you will probably move on, but if I could offer a few points, you may try practicing on this design.

I agree that the sub text or list of services following the curve of the circle should not be covered up. No point in having a list if people can't read it at all.

The main copy would stand out more if the banner behind it were a darker color.

The black jagged shading on the tools, would work so much better if it were the light grey instead.

Same goes for the jagged shading on the main copy. Also you may want to match the thickness of the "jags" on the lettering so that it closer matches the tools, or lose that effect on the text all together. Try that on the same effect on the banner. It will pull the whole thing together.

Be mindful of contrast. Bad contrast can really kill a design. The old design actually reads a bit better. If you stick around long enough, you'll hear people use the words "squint test" if you haven't heard that already. If a design can pass the squint test, meaning you squint your eyes while looking at the design and you can still make out all the elements, then your design will have strong use of contrast.

Keep at it though. Practice, Practice, Practice.... everyone has to do it, so don't let people discourage you if this is something you truly want to do.

Thank you Joe, eight38signco, Deaton Design, ForgeInc, and everyone else, I appreciate the advice and encouragement. I truly love this industry and work on it more hours than I should everyday. Even the negative feedback is making me better, so I appreciate that too.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

The ability to draw from life doesnt come that easy either. Those that can do it make use of it. Drawing from scratch is a whole different thing. Using no reference material at all is hard for anyone.

The key word here is "Reference" and unless your name is Bern Hogarth or Frank Frazetta, chances are you should never work without it. Using no reference material at all is ignorant and I think any real artist would agree with that. Most artists I know use photographic as well as art and physical references for everything they do whether they feel the subject is familiar to them or not. If they don't they are limiting their imagination and creativity, and most of all the accuracy of properly rendering their subject.

Whether you trace an image off the internet, trace your own reference images that you took with your own camera, or create an image based on how your brain recalls and imagines it, you are still drawing. Now if you import a bitmap, click "trace", and call it your own...that's an entirely different scenario.

Drawing is simply the act of rendering an image onto a two dimensional surface. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[MotorCityMan]

The key word here is "Reference" and unless your name is Bern Hogarth or Frank Frazetta, chances are you should never work without it. Using no reference material at all is ignorant and I think any real artist would agree with that. Most artists I know use photographic as well as art and physical references for everything they do whether they feel the subject is familiar to them or not. If they don't they are limiting their imagination and creativity, and most of all the accuracy of properly rendering their subject.

Whether you trace an image off the internet, trace your own reference images that you took with your own camera, or create an image based on how your brain recalls and imagines it, you are still drawing. Now if you import a bitmap, click "trace", and call it your own...that's an entirely different scenario.

Drawing is simply the act of rendering an image onto a two dimensional surface. Nothing more, nothing less.

amen

 

[MotorCityMan]

I darkened the banner and simplified it some, I think i like it better,

 

[TyrantDesigner]

here are all your light sources, the blue arrows are where the light sources are coming from as indicated by your jaggies. your lettering has 2 light sources, yellow is the light source for the top of the letters, purple for the drop shadow ... am i seeing a fuzzy drop shadow on the llc? ... don't mix drop shadows, stick with solid of soft shadows but not both. red arrow is a centralized light source since the light shows it goes in 2 directions ... basically it's a light coming from the viewer. Again, watch your light sources.

 

[4R Graphics]

I like the colors of the original post. I do think it is looking better not a fan of the pinstripes.

My opinion on drawing well I think that almost every piece of PRICELESS art I looked at in the louvre including the Mona Lisa had some real world REFERENCE and I am pretty sure that no one here has the kind of ARTIST recognition that the artist who painted those paintings has.

So if you can look at something and draw it you are in my book an artist and can draw.

 

[GAC05]

TyrantDesigner,
I think it looks better without all those arrows all over the place.....

wayne k
guam usa





Good advice on the lighting, there are some high end designers on this list that have tripped up on that more than once.
whk

 

[MotorCityMan]

here are all your light sources, the blue arrows are where the light sources are coming from as indicated by your jaggies. your lettering has 2 light sources, yellow is the light source for the top of the letters, purple for the drop shadow ... am i seeing a fuzzy drop shadow on the llc? ... don't mix drop shadows, stick with solid of soft shadows but not both. red arrow is a centralized light source since the light shows it goes in 2 directions ... basically it's a light coming from the viewer. Again, watch your light sources.

Thank you, I see it now, I will work to improve on that. I'm going to use an arrow while I design to remind me of where the light is. good tips

 

[MotorCityMan]

I like the colors of the original post. I do think it is looking better not a fan of the pinstripes.

My opinion on drawing well I think that almost every piece of PRICELESS art I looked at in the louvre including the Mona Lisa had some real world REFERENCE and I am pretty sure that no one here has the kind of ARTIST recognition that the artist who painted those paintings has.

So if you can look at something and draw it you are in my book an artist and can draw.

+1

Without a real reference I could draw "design" some of the parts I do. Bringing parts from the 1950's into today's standards is a challenge. A lot of the parts do not even have a blueprint anymore and have to be drawn up within .001 tolerance. I think this is a form of art personally. Whether I use a micrometer and a cad program or a pencil is irrelevant. I'm not saying one is better than the other. When I design new parts I do start with a pencil sketch. Can you guess which parts are new or "traced"?

I'm new to designing signs, using a $1200.00 program compared to a $20,000 cad program is a bit of a learning curve. I have to remember things like the lighting instead of things like tolerance, but I will get it. Drawing is a lot different than rendering.

 

[MotorCityMan]

better or worse?

 

[4R Graphics]

I like that alot better. I think you might want to add some detail to the saw blade tips. Like a real blade just dont over due it.

 

[Marlene]

I agree that the sub text or list of services following the curve of the circle should not be covered up. No point in having a list if people can't read it at all.

the list of services besides the issues above (and the bottom copy being upside down) wasn't a bad idea. the company name and the tools kind of give a clue as to what they do and since the name doesn't they may need a list. maybe something they can add under the last version you posted would work.

 

[MotorCityMan]

I like that alot better. I think you might want to add some detail to the saw blade tips. Like a real blade just dont over due it.

I put in some reliefs, does that help?

 

[Jillbeans]

I think the wrenches look upside down.
They need flipped so that their "mouths" are open in the middle of the design.
Their angles could be tighter, in less of a wider X shape, to help fill the hole in the center of the design.
I'd also move the sawblade up.
Love....Jill