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New Logo for fairly new sign company

Joe Diaz

Joe Diaz

New Member
Jeff said:
Two thoughts from me;


Not that this is how I handle a "real" job but the OP produced a sketch in post #38 of elements he would like to see. Like a few others I was just playing with a quick idea.

Regarding logos;

I believe a lot of people refer to some lettering as a logo. I don't view what I have shown on the "logo" thread to necessarily be my logo. Thru the years I have had my trucks lettered many many different ways. When I get board with it or have a new idea I change it. What I have tried to do is always show what I am capable of and it seems to have brought me a lot of the kind of work I want to do.

For me my truck being lettered is the only visual advertizing I do, other than word of mouth from other jobs.

I also posted recently that I go in streaks of not having any lettering on my vehicle. I know for a fact we see a difference in the phone calls whether it is or is not lettered.

Even though most refer to it as a logo, I think most of what I produce is lettering for my customers. Maybe that is what is refereed to as branding?

Although thru the years different versions of my lettering or designs for customer ends up on biz cards and letterhead, I still don't think it is a logo in the sense of corporate logos.
Click to expand...


What is a logo? THAT is a good discussion in and of itself. The way we define it here at our shop so that our clients can understand, is if we design something for a one time use... for just that one application, it's a design or layout. If we are creating something that will be used on signs, vehicle graphics, business cards, websites, etc... something that ties all those things together... well then that is a logo and we design a logo keeping in mind that it needs to be flexible and used on all those different applications. How that logo is used throughout that business's image is called branding.

So when a client hires us to design a sign, we ask if they need a logo first. In other words they need to make a decision on how the design we are creating is going to be used. Is it just for the sign? Then it's a sign layout and the project is handled and priced as if it is a one time sign layout. Are you going to use it beyond that one application? Then you want us to create a logo. And we use a different process and charge differently for logos.
 
Dan Antonelli

Dan Antonelli

New Member
It's kind of surprising to hear some people speak about how little value they see in branding for a small business - whether it's their own, or their clients' brands.
 
L

LeLuni

New Member
Just a fun side anecdote:

I just sat down with a company that got their logo 'symbol' from Microsoft Word clip art when they started (many years ago). They paired this lovely symbol with their company name written out in Arial.

They will have 30 million in sales this year. They still use the same logo.

It's a fun exercise, especially for us creative types, but it really doesn't matter.

Just find a nice blocky, heavyweight font, pick your company color, and call it a day.

John
 
Joe Diaz

Joe Diaz

New Member
LeLuni said:
Just a fun side anecdote:

I just sat down with a company that got their logo 'symbol' from Microsoft Word clip art when they started (many years ago). They paired this lovely symbol with their company name written out in Arial.

They will have 30 million in sales this year. They still use the same logo.

It's a fun exercise, especially for us creative types, but it really doesn't matter.

Just find a nice blocky, heavyweight font, pick your company color, and call it a day.

John
Click to expand...


Yeah but you have to wonder would they have 40 or 50 million in sales this year if they had a better brand?
 
Moze

Moze

Active Member
Thoughts on Black + Deckers new logo?

Before and after:

black_decker_logo.jpg
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Okay, let's try a different direction.

Dan, this probably doesn't happen to you because of your set up and direction of your business, but an average sign shop like mine, Joe or anyone USofA....

Guy comes in and wants his truck lettered. The conversation goes back and forth of his needs, target audience and we finally decide on the copy he needs. Then we discuss if he needs a logo or a branding to show him off so to speak and whether we tell him a price or he cuts us off and just says, I need the words only. I'm not into glitzy pictures or crazy effects. I like simple stoopid..... and I want easy colors to read, again nothing fancy. So, you show him the many logos or designs you've done for others over the years and while he says they're nice, he still says, I want simple stoopid. Other than giving him what he wants..... or lose the sale, he's willing to pay your quoted price of $775. for just some die-cut vinyl. He does not and specifies he does not want to go over $800. Period.

He doesn't want shirts, jackets, brochures, cards, letterheads, envelopes or stationery. He's just a simple remodeler who wants his truck lettered up nice and simple so all can read it.

How do you work your magic and talk him into spending thousands more on something he doesn't want ??

Remember, he is a one-man show and a hard worker.



This scenario is more of what happens to the majority of people on this site, then the people already willing to drop $10k on a branding.
 
Dan Antonelli

Dan Antonelli

New Member
Joe Diaz said:
Yeah but you have to wonder would they have 40 or 50 million in sales this year if they had a better brand?
Click to expand...

And on that note, last year we redesigned a brand and fleet wrap for an HVAC company. They have a dedicated phone number only on their trucks so they can track each lead source, and help measure ROI.

They had several years of data as far as how many calls they received per month, compared to one years worth of data since we redesigned their brand and fleet.

Since the rebrand and new wrap design, they average 8.5x as many calls per month compared to the previous brand and truck wrap. You think they believe their new brand hasn't played an important part to their success and increased bottom line?
 
Biker Scout

Biker Scout

New Member
Going to a casino isn't a calculated risk or even a good metric to compare to ROI (Return On Investment)

Dan brought up a great point. There are many ways to calculate how a simple change can lead to more sales, and justifying the re-branding efforts and money spent. You can even write down the costs associated with advertising. Can't do that with gambling. Building your business shouldn't be considered the same thing as gambling. It's an investment that you have to put time and work into anyway. Need to change the mindset first, and not think like a poor person that is at the whim of the "economy"
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
Lot of apples to oranges in this thread.
(and everytime I see the Pepsi logo I wonder who's the deadhead that owns pepsi now)
 

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Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Pat Whatley said:
Was that directed at my post about us doing it for free? Man, I was making a joke. There's a world of difference in actually designing somebody a real useable logo instead of the quickly put together thoughts you, me, Jill, and others posted. What we all posted is the digital age version of a pencil sketch. It wasn't hypocritical at all.

Sorry about that.
Click to expand...

I think what we posted IS usable compared to what the OP posted. Some of my best
ideas happen in seconds or minutes after giving it some thought. What we show
in a sketch has worth.

What ticks me off is the undercutting of MY business pricing model. I'm not losing
any business to Neato or anyone charging 200-500 bucks, but c'mon. 200 Bucks!

I design stuff for free cuz I need a distraction, and most newbies can not visualize a darn thing.
So why not... it's why I'm here... to share what I know.

I truly believe the logo I designed would be charged at my new minimum... and it's a lot more than
800 bucks.

Here it is in all it's glory. I'm sticking this in my portfolio because I think it's a clever, clean logo.

I may have been a lil cranky yesterday so sowwy Pat...
 

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Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Pat Whatley said:
You know that after all of this OP is gonna go ahead and use what he designed.
Click to expand...

I know... I was looking at an older thread a few weeks ago where another guy decided to get into the sign business, he posted
a poop logo - really bad, like this one, we go in, have this same discussion, and poof, after a few weeks - he's gone.

But for some reason, these posts are like crack to me...
 
SIGNTIME

SIGNTIME

New Member
To those saying that branding or a good logo isn't important I hope you don't tell your customers that :banghead:.... a better logo will get more people in your door after that its up to your service, price, and/or quality of work to get them to come back.
 
H

hansman

New Member
Rick said:
I think what we posted IS usable compared to what the OP posted. Some of my best
ideas happen in seconds or minutes after giving it some thought. What we show
in a sketch has worth.

What ticks me off is the undercutting of MY business pricing model. I'm not losing
any business to Neato or anyone charging 200-500 bucks, but c'mon. 200 Bucks!

I design stuff for free cuz I need a distraction, and most newbies can not visualize a darn thing.
So why not... it's why I'm here... to share what I know.

I truly believe the logo I designed would be charged at my new minimum... and it's a lot more than
800 bucks.

Here it is in all it's glory. I'm sticking this in my portfolio because I think it's a clever, clean logo.

I may have been a lil cranky yesterday so sowwy Pat...
Click to expand...

Wow this thread took on a life of its own.
OP got about 20 or so FREE designs to choose from. Even an entire FREE branding like the one above which is actually worth some $$$$.
This is the problem with most industries today. Things are given away for FREE. If not for free there is always someone undercutting you on craigslist for a few bucks just for beer money.
Is it wrong, hell yeah, can it be stopped? Doubtful, but for someone like the author himself who started the topic out by saying he did signs for beer money I think I found the answer.
 
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