Newbie on pricing.

[altereddezignz]

Well i have been doing solid vinyl for a pretty long time now but the pricing aspect for this material is a little easier than the complexity of digital printing. I mean i know some of it is straight forward like the the digital media vinyl cost per sq ft and the laminate cost per sf but when it comes to the ink estimate of what it would cost i am not sure where to begin there.

Any helpful tips.

 

[jtinker]

You could just use one of the estimation softwares they have availabe in the merchant members section. Or you could do it all per square foot as well once you calculate the cost per square foot of the ink. Usually you can go to a manufacturer website or support call and ask them how much yield per cost you are able to get from your cartriges at what settings. Most of them actually use it at a selling point, if you ever heard only $0.43 per square foot etc etc. If you dont want to buy software just find out what the cost to you per square foot is then add a profit mark up on to that. Manufacturing mark ups usually go 4-8 times what you spent on it.

I know roland has tons of details on their inks, a page similar to this where it gives you the details should give you the square foot yield per price:
https://www.rolanddga.com/products/inks/eco-sol-max-eco-solvant-inks/features

I developed an algorithm myself to calculate this and it took about a week to get it to match up with almost any manufacturer suggested price but the entire process is too complex to just do on pen / paper. Maybe if you made your own spreadsheet program you could implement it but even then its more work than is needed.

 

[altereddezignz]

Speadsheets are part of my job so that part should be easy. ill see if i can track down some price per sf for the mutah ink and go from there as a starting point then i will just keep up with the actual output that i am able to get for the first set of cartridges and adjust. Ill do it off a percentage since the print will vary from job to job.

 

[Techman]

why worry about the sq ft price of ink. The cost is mere pennies. IF one has to think about the cost of of a product by the sw ft then that becomes a commodity.
When something is reduced to a commodity then the price will be pushed down.
Tbibk about value pricing and then ink cost will be meaningless.

 

[altereddezignz]

Dont take this the wrong way but since i am new to the digital printing i would like to know where every penny goes.

I can tell you to the penny exactly how much money i have in any solid sticker i make that leaves here. Now do i use that every time i price something no but when i was new i wanted to know it.

I like knowing the value of what i am creating b/c i keep very detailed records of my exact profit. Even the electrical cost along with the hourly rate consumption to complete the job.
Over kill probably but its an aspect i like to know.

 

[jtinker]

I remember my old sales manager made a remark that went something like "why worry about them, they're just pennies"
And our accountant was going upstairs and he gave her a look like he wanted to throw his ledgers at her. But if hes like me, I need to
know where the money is going. And if youre not charging for ink then youre doing something wrong.

We spend about $1000 for a set of 8 cartriges, that money has to come back at least 4x before we finish that set of inks.

 

[altereddezignz]

I remember my old sales manager made a remark that went something like "why worry about them, they're just pennies"
And our accountant was going upstairs and he gave her a look like he wanted to throw his ledgers at her. But if hes like me, I need to
know where the money is going. And if youre not charging for ink then youre doing something wrong.

We spend about $1000 for a set of 8 cartriges, that money has to come back at least 4x before we finish that set of inks.

Very much so. I work my butt off for every penny so i want to know where those all are. Im not saying that everyone else doesnt work for their money. Im not rich so every extra penny i have counts and i can promise you i dont bleed or waste money anywhere in any aspect of my business. My tax lady loves mb/c she literately has no work to do at the end of the year bc she only has to punch in numbers b/c it is all organized and laid out for her.

 

[Andy D]

I We spend about $1000 for a set of 8 cartriges, that money has to come back at least 4x before we finish that set of inks.

You should be getting a whole lot more than 400% mark up.
My lowest markup is 13oz banner, material and ink runs around 18 cents per square foot, the cheapest I will sell it for is $6.50 per square foot, that's a 3600% mark up.

 

[Gino]

What about all the stuff you don't use or can't use or ruined ??

If you price out by the square inch or foot, what about the off-fall ?? Who pays for what you're not using ??
What if the off-falls are somewhat minimal, who eventually pays for that if you can never use it again ??
Who pays for the stuff you f*ck up and hafta print over again ??

Let's say, you are printing a 36" x 120" banner. if all goes well, how do you want to handle the 18" off-fall. Save it until ya need it and charge accordingly again ?? Ya know how many of those remnants you're eventually going to accumulate ?? Not a good idea. So, let's say you're still printing that same 36 x 120 banner and at 114" the signal is dropped, you have a power outage or whatever..... you can't finish the print. Who pays for that mess ?? Gotta start over and now the banner just cost you double, including you are now twice as backed up for deadlines.

You need to do more than just figure your costs for producing. You need to figure your mistakes, your insurance, your utilities, your hidden costs of paper towels for mopping up spills, insurance, taxes, cleaning agents and other things. You don't just pay for when they come in and then b!tch about the high costs of maintenance.

 

[altereddezignz]

I never said anything about not calculating the cost of waste, loss, towels etc, etc. It is all there i started this thread out of curiosity on the ink and nothing more. I know how to figure the rest of the cost as i have been doing it for a long time. I was more interested about an average or something to start off of since i have never printed like this before. I am very critical about money and i mean VERY!! Im not cheap and i buy what i need but waste is at a minimum unless accidents happen and then yes you have that loss.

I didnt start this to get everyone to argue about their way to manage the bottom line of your business it was simply about the ink lol.

But i completely understand about the waste and all the expendable materials that you dont get back, cleaners, rags, towels, electric, heat, air, water, trash, rent, internet, insurance, payroll, taxes, benefits, strict loss, everyone has overhead no matter what so i have always know my bottom line up until now with the digital printing being new.

It interested me to hear people talk about how they run their business sometimes tho. I often wonder if they ever make any money and or how they are still in business.

 

[Gino]

Yeah, me too.



Ya know, I look at business like being a small raster image. As you grow and get bigger as does an image when enlarging it for print, it's remarkable how much the same they are. As you get bigger and make all the good things count..... all the mistakes and bad spots become larger proportionately. Waste is a huge factor in any business. Most people only look at the end product and not what it took to get there.

Your calculation are going to vary as when using 40%, 100% or 300% coverage. The kinda ink you're using and how much your machine lays down vs. someone else's. It's not a fair question, except like tech said, it's pennies and really just figure a quarter or so a square foot and you should be on the good side of no mistakes or miscalculations.

 

[altereddezignz]

I think the mutoh ink and my printer averages around 28.77986 with heavy in and a full sf print. So ill base it off that until i have some time on it under my belt.

 

[Andy D]

altereddezignz,

I think what people are saying is pricing per square foot can get you in trouble because every job is different.
Our sales people here were pricing the graphics by the square foot and every quote was too high or too low ,
so I had to take over all the graphic quotes.

My method is to figure all material actual cost, including drop (extra material not part of print) and any other
material that may be part of the job such as lamination, ink, grommets, hemming tape, etc.... add add 40%
to that.
Then figure print time, I charge between $125 - $200 a hour depending on what printer I need to use.
Then table/finish time is $75 per hour.