Non-payer what would you do

[Mason]

Again ...

Repo'ing signs without repossession clause in a contract is theft. You must also notify the delinquent customer of a 30 day notice in most states of the repossession. Just doing a night grab can end you up in jail, ruin your businesses reputation and in the long run cost you business.

Again....

Repo the sign. Ive done it on several occasions and it has always ended with the deadbeat picking up the phone followed by payment in full.
Problem solved.

As an aside;
The sign(s) is the property of the sign company/designer/whomever you call yourself, until such time as it is paid for in full. You dont get arrested for securing possession of your own property.

Point #2.
Your reputation should not be harmed by securing property that is your own, It would however undermine your reputation (and your wallet) to be known as the guy who makes signs for free.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

Again....

Repo the sign. Ive done it on several occasions and it has always ended with the deadbeat picking up the phone followed by payment in full.
Problem solved.

As an aside;
The sign(s) is the property of the sign company/designer/whomever you call yourself, until such time as it is paid for in full. You dont get arrested for securing possession of your own property.

Point #2.
Your reputation should not be harmed by securing property that is your own, It would however undermine your reputation (and your wallet) to be known as the guy who makes signs for free.

Whatever dude, possession is 9/10ths the law. If you get yanked out of your place of work for theft by the cops ... not my problem. Happened in Orlando to a couple sign shops for the same thing. Write it up in your contract that you can take the sign back and it's kosher. But if you want to be known as the sign company who got arrested for taking a sign that is all you.

 

[Billct2]

Call the person that ordered the sign at the non-profit and explain the situation.
Let them deal with the person that is trying to get out of making good on their donation.

 

[Mason]

Whatever dude, possession is 9/10ths the law. If you get yanked out of your place of work for theft by the cops ... not my problem. Happened in Orlando to a couple sign shops for the same thing. Write it up in your contract that you can take the sign back and it's kosher. But if you want to be known as the sign company who got arrested for taking a sign that is all you.

Ya, okay, whatever....

Never Happen.
One of my repo's, in fact one the first ones I ever did. Was from the Peabody Police Dept.

Im fairly certain if they didnt come get me then, that it isnt going to happen.

 

[signmeup]

Ya, okay, whatever....

Never Happen.
One of my repo's, in fact one the first ones I ever did. Was from the Peabody Police Dept.

Im fairly certain if they didnt come get me then, that it isnt going to happen.

Bull.

(wait for obscenity strewn, chest beating tantrum)

 

[Mason]

Bull.

(wait for obscenity strewn tantrum)

Really, thats your opinion. It is in fact, a fact.
And in fact they also called and promptly paid their bill upon which time I returned the Banner which was of course their property. I also received a very nice letter of apology from the lieutenant who ordered it initially.

I love the way this forum has deteriorated into a showcase for all you know-it-all's

 

[signmeup]

Really, thats your opinion. It is in fact, a fact.
And in fact they also called and promptly paid their bill upon which time I returned the Banner which was of course their property. I also received a very nice letter of apology from the lieutenant who ordered it initially.

I love the way this forum has deteriorated into a showcase for all you know-it-all's

...and the Easter bunny is real.

(You are acting like a know-it-all BTW)

 

[Mason]

...and the Easter bunny is real.

(You are acting like a know-it-all BTW)

Whatever, its a waste of time and energy to have this "conversation" any longer.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Repo only works if you have in your contract something to the effect that you...
Maker of sign owns and can remove for safety repairs till paid in full.

Other wise it's theft, some states have the castle law like Florida protection of property can get ugly.

 

[signmeup]

Whatever, its a waste of time and energy to have this "conversation" any longer.

You really should bring this up with your lawyer. A quick call could save you quite a bit of grief. The Peabody Police may not be up on the finer points of the law but other jurisdictions may well be. Your advice may work fine in small town Mass but could seriously backfire in a larger centre.

Craigs got a point... I wouldn't try it in a hangin' state.

 

[Billct2]

I worked at a shop where we repoed some signs. The cops were at our shop the next day looking for the "thieves". We had stored the signs at an undisclosed location
and didn't answer any questions, but they let us know we'd be busted if caught. So take your chances. This was in CT in a medium size town.
In the "Old Days" you'd sneak by at night and roll it out black. That was the "code" that told the other shops the guy didn't pay.

 

[signmeup]

I like the approach of a respected member here. He "recalls" the sign for "safety reasons" and returns it once the "dangerous" part has been remedied. (non-payment)

 

[MikePro]

don't repo. you have a contract with them, however you want to look at it. you held up your end, now you just gotta encourage them to hold up theirs.
If you repo the sign, you're not only trespassing but vandalizing/stealing property. in the end, they'd have the ability to make you give the sign back at no charge to avoid them pressing charges against you.

 

[John L]

Lawyer for a quick contract review is the best advice offered here.

You cannot "contract" to break any law. If the law (or even standard court procedure) doesnt allow, the contract doesnt allow, regardless of the verbage you use in your contract.

Dont let something like this bite you in the rear.

 

[John L]

I like the approach of a respected member here. He "recalls" the sign for "safety reasons" and returns it once the "dangerous" part has been remedied. (non-payment)

I remember that as seeming like a fantastic solution! Perfect amount of cloud cover to work well.

 

[Gino]

Many people have taken their installed signs back down for non-payment, but really don't know they are in fact breaking the law. It works because not too many people understand the law and should it go to court, you'll find out in a hurry that you are the one now breaking the laws..... and in two places.

• Do you have a quote/invoice stating your policies of payment.... such as 50% down the balance in 10 days, 30 days or upon completion ??
• Is this quote signed ??
• Did this customer give you your requested deposit ??
• Did you install the sign as promised ??

Okay, now you've upheld your end of your own contract.

Your contract/quote/invoice is only that..... a contract explaining all the possibilities of what is to take place. Once the sign is on the building, it is considered by law.... their sign and their property. You have no right to repossess a sign on their property. That will be considered theft. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You are now guilty of stealing their [UNPAID] sign, which is theirs, by your own contract and violating your OWN contract.

Your contract/invoice/quote does not give you permission to take anything back. If you are unable to collect your monies, that is an entirely different matter and must be taken up in the courts if you can't collect in a law abiding method.

I know, it's not fair, but it is the law. By not collecting the money owed you in a proper manner, you are in violation of your own contract of enforcing your terms. You can't suddenly decide to go on private property and do whatever you want. You can fake it and threaten to do that, but it can backfire on you..... ask me how I know this one. :Oops:

Oh yeah, and it doesn't matter what kind of mumbo-jumbo legal sounding clause you insert into your quotes or invoices about 'SAID' signs are still your property until paid in full, you still can't steal your unpaid sign.​

 

[andy]

Many people have taken their installed signs back down for non-payment, but really don't know they are in fact breaking the law. It works because not too many people understand the law and should it go to court, you'll find out in a hurry that you are the one now breaking the laws..... and in two places.

• Do you have a quote/invoice stating your policies of payment.... such as 50% down the balance in 10 days, 30 days or upon completion ??
• Is this quote signed ??
• Did this customer give you your requested deposit ??
• Did you install the sign as promised ??

Okay, now you've upheld your end of your own contract.

Your contract/quote/invoice is only that..... a contract explaining all the possibilities of what is to take place. Once the sign is on the building, it is considered by law.... their sign and their property. You have no right to repossess a sign on their property. That will be considered theft. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You are now guilty of stealing their [UNPAID] sign, which is theirs, by your own contract and violating your OWN contract.

Your contract/invoice/quote does not give you permission to take anything back. If you are unable to collect your monies, that is an entirely different matter and must be taken up in the courts if you can't collect in a law abiding method.

I know, it's not fair, but it is the law. By not collecting the money owed you in a proper manner, you are in violation of your own contract of enforcing your terms. You can't suddenly decide to go on private property and do whatever you want. You can fake it and threaten to do that, but it can backfire on you..... ask me how I know this one. :Oops:

Oh yeah, and it doesn't matter what kind of mumbo-jumbo legal sounding clause you insert into your quotes or invoices about 'SAID' signs are still your property until paid in full, you still can't steal your unpaid sign.​

What an odd system?

Write a bouncing cheque and be arrested.... pay a tiny deposit for a sign which is installed on your building and then hold the sign maker hostage?!

I can only assume that it's the really dumb customers who get arrested for dud cheques... the smart ones pay a 10% deposit and wait until the sign is physically nailed onto their property... once this happens it's "their" property and you're the thief.

The mumbo jumbo might not work in your system but here it means exactly what it says on the tin.... any sign maker will not pass over legal ownership of anything they've supplied unless or until it's been paid for in full.

Whether you can be prosecuted for stealing goods to which you retain full legal ownership in an interesting concept... as far as I'm aware the most you can be charged with here is trespass. If you can gain access to your sign from the public highway then even this doesn't apply.

 

[Si Allen]

The ultimate solution!

 

[Gino]

What an odd system?

Write a bouncing cheque and be arrested.... pay a tiny deposit for a sign which is installed on your building and then hold the sign maker hostage?!

I can only assume that it's the really dumb customers who get arrested for dud cheques... the smart ones pay a 10% deposit and wait until the sign is physically nailed onto their property... once this happens it's "their" property and you're the thief.

The mumbo jumbo might not work in your system but here it means exactly what it says on the tin.... any sign maker will not pass over legal ownership of anything they've supplied unless or until it's been paid for in full.

Whether you can be prosecuted for stealing goods to which you retain full legal ownership in an interesting concept... as far as I'm aware the most you can be charged with here is trespass. If you can gain access to your sign from the public highway then even this doesn't apply.

No, the problem is that most people in this country in many businesses these days are not business-minded people and think they can do what they want.... when they want.

In order to do business, your contract must be iron clad. Both parties need to know that upfront. We all slip from time to time by letting our guard down and for falling to lies by the customer.

Most businesses will get a 50% check up front with the balance due upon completion. A simple phone call making sure the money is there when you instal will be all that's necessary in most cases. Once you have full understanding with a company and lots of repeat work, you might set up other terms. We have many customers like that. Receivables tend to be constantly flowing in with this kind of billing and the little onesies and twosies keep money coming in on a smaller scale.

It's simple though, if someone does stiff you on a check or refuses to make payment of some sort, there are several measures you may take to get the ball rolling. However, taking down something you purposely put up based on your contract is not one of them.

Gaining access to your sign by reaching over a fence or from a public highway is not tolerated.... anyway, not from a legal standpoint. Stealing is stealing and no matter how you justify it in your mind, you can't take something back, just because you allegedly are accusing someone of not paying... they are simply not paying by the agreed upon terms and you must collect your money through proper channels.... not your sign.

Why would you want your sign back anyway ?? I'd rather see their ass in court paying for not only their sign, but all the court costs and any other fees out-a-pocket you incurred in getting your monies. That part you can put in your quote and invoices and get back by our legal system.

Is it fast ?? Nope. But it does work.
​

I have one unpaid invoice in the last 15 or so years, that I can think of besides the two from here at s101. They're my problem and the two from here are written off. Both parties here are long gone out of business. I know this for a fact and the one other deadbeat is on his way out of business. I think I'll still get that one back. He's still operating and I have started the procedure. So, I can go after his business and him personally, so even if he goes out..... I still have him on a personal level.


Now, don't get me wrong. I didn't say this method of collecting a sign doesn't work, it's just not legal. I've used that technique on more than one occasion and always got away with it until once. The customer knew his rights and the cops were there in no time and I barely got away without being arrested. My lawyer even told me I was lucky they didn't chase me. By the way, I later took that guy to court and won, plus all of my costs and money needed to use this method and I finally saw the light that this was a better way, but to do it right is to not let it happen to begin with.

 

[CentralSigns]

• Do you have a quote/invoice stating your policies of payment.... such as 50% down the balance in 10 days, 30 days or upon completion ??
• Is this quote signed ??
• Did this customer give you your requested deposit ??
• Did you install the sign as promised ??

Okay, now you've upheld your end of your own contract.

Invoice says net 28 days. No signed quote, gentleman's arrangement. No deposit. Delivered as promised. President of non profit has spoke to his ski hill contact, no result. Sign is attached to building. Can't start a construction lean cause it's beyond 30 days, the time limit here in Canuckland.

I think I will write a letter to the CEO of the ski hill, and include all the interest to date, at say 30% interest rate.

Thanks for all the interesting ideas, may escalate the next step to include some of them.