Not sure if I'm using the correct terminology................................................................................

[Gino]

Had a customer in here the other day picking up some small decals that he was gonna stick on windows, doors and inside walls. He came in a little early and I said, I only cleared these about 10 minutes ago, they still might be a little tacky. He asked why ?? I told him.... on things this small, generally only only a spray laminate is used, especially going inside. He said he thought it was gonna be a piece of clear vinyl over the top of it.

Question is...... do you/or can you call a clear coat a laminate and not be misdirecting the customer's impression ?? I usually explain the difference when needed, but this was just 8 small 12" x 22" signs printed on vinyl. Didn't think I'd be questioned.

I know here, on s101, I use the term liquid lam vs. rigid lam, but these people (customers) usually don't know or care.

in advance.................. Gino

 

[Billct2]

I use a liquid clear coat on a lot of my Gerber Edge stuff. When I spec it I call it a clear coat. Never had anyone question me about it.
When I sell digital printing I spec it as laminated.

 

[White Haus]

I'd tell the customer to mind his business!

All jokes aside, we'll sometimes spec out gloss/matte/anti-graffiti etc. laminate on quotes and orders, but then again we don't use any liquid laminate or clear coat.

That being said, as long as the end result is professional I wouldn't worry about what the customer "thought was gonna be on there".

 

[BigNate]

See Google's definitions for laminate both the noun and verb - laminating something involves putting materials together. This is different from spray coating with a varnish like "Spray Laminate".... In the Offset world we have laminating and we have coating - you can flood coat with various varnishes, even a good UV flood which will look and feel similar to a good laminate. But the laminate is always much thicker that the deposited layer from varnish. Laminate always has 2-dimensional structure before the laminating process.

No for the sticker, I agree the "Spray Laminate" (absolute oxymoronic/inaccurate name for the product) varnish should work very well and is likely what we would have used. But we would also have told the customer it would be a spray varnish coating not a 2mill (or whatever) thick laminate - good opportunity to upsell lamination....

var·nish
/ˈvärniSH/

noun

1. resin dissolved in a liquid for applying on wood, metal, or other materials to form a hard, clear, shiny surface when dry.
   "several coats of varnish"
   
   
   

Laminate:
verb

/ˈlaməˌnāt/

1. overlay (a flat surface, especially paper) with a layer of plastic or some other protective material.
   "we will laminate your photos in clear plastic"
   
   

noun

/ˈlamənət,ˈlaməˌnāt/

1. a laminated structure or material, especially one made of layers fixed together to form a hard, flat, or flexible material.
   "the blade is suitable for cutting plastics or laminates"
   
   
   

 

[Boudica]

I'd tell the customer to mind his business!

All jokes aside, we'll sometimes spec out gloss/matte/anti-graffiti etc. laminate on quotes and orders, but then again we don't use any liquid laminate or clear coat.

That being said, as long as the end result is professional I wouldn't worry about what the customer "thought was gonna be on there".

Same here, we just call it "protective laminate", they* don't know if its a liquid or otherwise, nor do they care. We don't use liquid/spray except on canvas and ever occasionally suede wall paper. They trust us to know what's best, but I have to press them over and over for specifics so I can determine what is best.

* they = most of our customers. not counting the hand full of know-it-alls who think they know more than I do. For them, I just do what I'm asked to do and it's on them if they were wrong, or failed to specify beforehand what they want. I think there is a term for that....

 

[2B]

That is a pet peeve of mine, customers showing up early or randomly wanting to know where their products are / why are they not ready.
* were you contacted? no? So that means they are not ready and now you are wasting my time so that notice of them being ready for receipt will be delayed.

We only use film lamination, so it will just list LAMINATION and then the type CAL, CAST, VANDALISM, ANTI-SLIP, ETC

 

[White Haus]

That is a pet peeve of mine, customers showing up early or randomly wanting to know where their products are / why are they not ready.
* were you contacted? no? So that means they are not ready and now you are wasting my time so that notice of them being ready for receipt will be delayed.

Same here. I used to really let it bug me as if them showing up early/unannounced was somehow my problem/fault but now I don't care as much.

I'll just bluntly tell them no it's not ready yet, it will be ready when I told you it would be and we'll let you know when it is done. We make a point to stick to promised turnaround times and contact customers as soon as orders are ready.

AKA....................if ya don't hear from us, IT'S NOT READY YET!!

 

[gnubler]

AKA....................if ya don't hear from us, IT'S NOT READY YET!!

Don't you just "push print" and it's done? Or pull it off the shelf, all ready to go...

There's currently a "Week of Morons" active thread if you want to add to it.

 

[unclebun]

We don't use liquid laminate. I also don't consider a 12"x22" decal to be small. We'd have laminated it if it needed protection.

 

[Boudica]

Same here. I used to really let it bug me as if them showing up early/unannounced was somehow my problem/fault but now I don't care as much.

I'll just bluntly tell them no it's not ready yet, it will be ready when I told you it would be and we'll let you know when it is done. We make a point to stick to promised turnaround times and contact customers as soon as orders are ready.

AKA....................if ya don't hear from us, IT'S NOT READY YET!!

we will get the ever occasional walk-in who thinks they can just hang out and wait. The pleasant production gal says: "I'm afraid it doesn't work like that, it's going to take 2-3 days to turn this around. We'll let you know when its ready. (sweet smile)"

....What I don't say out loud.... NOPE, this isn't Staples and I'm in the middle of 3 things right now.

 

[netsol]

i have 2 or 3 qts in the cabinet and they say "liquid laminate"
that would be good enough for me

we sometimes experiment with alternate products including krylon

 

[Johnny Best]

Gino, what kind of liquid lam do you use? Some people swear it, liquid lam, holds up better than clear vinyl lam. You should have told the customer he was getting a deal and you did not charge him extra for it.

 

[White Haus]

we will get the ever occasional walk-in who thinks they can just hang out and wait. The pleasant production gal says: "I'm afraid it doesn't work like that, it's going to take 2-3 days to turn this around. We'll let you know when its ready. (sweet smile)"

....What I don't say out loud.... NOPE, this isn't Staples and I'm in the middle of 3 things right now.

The only time we get hang out and wait is the odd contractor that waits for his truck. Even that I don't like, you get to spend a couple of hours listening to them yell on the phone and pace around.

Our "showroom/waiting area" is so bare and boring that hopefully it discourages the hang out and wait idea.

 

[petepaz]

we do a lot of military nameplates that need to get a specific spray coating, whether it's matte or gloss but we specify that as a clear coat like everyone else here has said and if we use a vinyl or polyester laminate we say laminate or lamination.
can't remember ever having any issues with that. sounds like this customer is just a PITA

 

[bob]

See Google's definitions for laminate both the noun and verb - laminating something involves putting materials together. This is different from spray coating with a varnish like "Spray Laminate".... In the Offset world we have laminating and we have coating - you can flood coat with various varnishes, even a good UV flood which will look and feel similar to a good laminate. But the laminate is always much thicker that the deposited layer from varnish. Laminate always has 2-dimensional structure before the laminating process.

No for the sticker, I agree the "Spray Laminate" (absolute oxymoronic/inaccurate name for the product) varnish should work very well and is likely what we would have used. But we would also have told the customer it would be a spray varnish coating not a 2mill (or whatever) thick laminate - good opportunity to upsell lamination....

var·nish
/ˈvärniSH/

noun

1. resin dissolved in a liquid for applying on wood, metal, or other materials to form a hard, clear, shiny surface when dry.
   "several coats of varnish"
   
   

Laminate:
verb

/ˈlaməˌnāt/

1. overlay (a flat surface, especially paper) with a layer of plastic or some other protective material.
   "we will laminate your photos in clear plastic"
   

noun

/ˈlamənət,ˈlaməˌnāt/

1. a laminated structure or material, especially one made of layers fixed together to form a hard, flat, or flexible material.
   "the blade is suitable for cutting plastics or laminates"
   
   

Dictionary:
noun

A collection of descriptions word usage, spelling, and pronunciation that was in vogue when the collection as published. There are no definitions in a dictionary, only descriptions. Using a dictionary entry as if it were a definition if fallacious.

 

[Stacey K]

People are so nosy! laminate is laminate, none of his beeswax what kind or brand it is unless he specified before he ordered.

I get A LOT of walk-ins expecting me to stop what I'm doing and make them decals. And my shop is on "the truck route" so some of my customers literally drive past like 6 times a day so it's common for them to stop in and "see how it's going". Drives me nuts.

 

[Gino]

Years ago, we used Dana. It was really good sh!t. Got it from the west coast before all the hazmat and crazy people started making it almost impossible to get/use. Tried Frog Juice with some success and we had several gallons of it. We had some at full strength, 30%, 50% and 75% for various applications. We cut it ourselves. Also use clearshield both in liquid form and rattle can. Don't get me wrong, there's a laminator here for the rigid lams on the majority of vinyls and I keep gloss and matte on hand, but generally just oracal product.

Like I said, I was just looking to see if I misled this person with verbiage ?? Perhaps another shop told him something different..... so he asked.

 

[BigNate]

Dictionary:
noun

A collection of descriptions word usage, spelling, and pronunciation that was in vogue when the collection as published. There are no definitions in a dictionary, only descriptions. Using a dictionary entry as if it were a definition if fallacious.

likewise anyone who takes a trade specific term and expects the lay-person to know they are referring to something different than the common usage/dictionary definition is a poor communicator. Dictionaries are there to help keep the common usage consistent so we don't do things like tell a customer we are using a laminate when in fact we are using a varnish....

 

[Gino]

likewise anyone who takes a trade specific term and expects the lay-person to know they are referring to something different than the common usage/dictionary definition is a poor communicator. Dictionaries are there to help keep the common usage consistent so we don't do things like tell a customer we are using a laminate when in fact we are using a varnish....

That is not at all what I said or did. Any small decals, not worth using a rigid lam on, at least gets some liquid laminate on it via spray or roller, but usually spray at this size.

Here are some reasons your dictionary style of going about things is worthless and why I still use the original meanings of words of what they originally meant. None of my clears have varnish in them, that I know of, just urethane in most cases. This was never meant to be an argument over semantics.

 

[BigNate]

That is not at all what I said or did. Any small decals, not worth using a rigid lam on, at least gets some liquid laminate on it via spray or roller, but usually spray at this size.

Here are some reasons your dictionary style of going about things is worthless and why I still use the original meanings of words of what they originally meant. None of my clears have varnish in them, that I know of, just urethane in most cases. This was never meant to be an argument over semantics.

Sorry Gino, I was referring to the statement that the use of a dictionary for definitions is fallacious, or purposefully misleading. You may have mislead a customer by saying you were laminating something that you were actually varnishing (even with a urethane resin instead of a natural resin...) BUT this mislead was in no way fallacious as even naming a spray varnish a 'laminate' is misleading. So when we all use the trade term to lay-people who are our customers, they are being mislead.

it is very likely that the term "liquid laminate" was created fallaciously so as to trick all of us "lay-sign makers" in to believing it was actually a laminate....

semantics can be very frustrating on both sides, imagine being told you are purchasing a very durable laminated print and all you get is something with a clear coat over it - the "liquid laminates" are good products, but the scratch/abrasion resistance is nothing compared to an exponentially thicker layer from a real laminate. I like to be sure the customer knows exactly what they are going to get - we never like when the customer receives a job and is surprised by what they receive.