Discussion Not sure I'm thinking correctly.........................

[Notarealsignguy]

I hate putting on stuff in the field. Its so much less productive then in the shop. Besides, the guy will line up 5 cans to do and when Gino shows up they will all be gone and accompanied with an excuse that they got real busy.

 

[Stacey K]

I agree Notarealsignguy, I hate doing things in the field also. They don't need to know I messed up or it only took me 5 minutes, or I eye-balled it because it looks better than being "level" or "straight". And if you mess up...it's another trip back to the shop UGH. That's the pits.

 

[Jeremiah]

My approach have very polite professional in person conversation with him. Tell him what his actions are doing to your business. No way I would bill him for missed appointments. That would end your business with him for sure.

 

[DPD]

Given the circumstances, there's not much you can do. Just ask him to call you on the day of the appointment to confirm else you will assume the appointment is cancelled. Then if he doesn't call do something else. If he does show either do the work when you have time or ask him to come back another time.

- denis

 

[BluetailGFX]

How much time goes into one of the roll offs? Are you hand lettering them?

For 2 of my roll off clients, I switched them over years ago to just single color, standardized designs, and got some waterjetted thin gauge steel stencils made up. Light enough to be able to be taped tight to the surface, rugged enough to power wash them after use. Quick and fast....... even hit a few one time on a construction site for the guy. But I still have access to an old school automotive paint supplier that will mix up rattle cans of single stage Imron.

 

[Gino]

How much time goes into one of the roll offs? Are you hand lettering them?

For 2 of my roll off clients, I switched them over years ago to just single color, standardized designs, and got some waterjetted thin gauge steel stencils made up. Light enough to be able to be taped tight to the surface, rugged enough to power wash them after use. Quick and fast....... even hit a few one time on a construction site for the guy. But I still have access to an old school automotive paint supplier that will mix up rattle cans of single stage Imron.

This particular guy has 4 sizes. 20, 25, 30 and 40 yarders. However, because he buys many reconditioned cans, they vary in configurations, so almost every can that comes in, has varying size requirements or more that can go on then the last one of the same size. No way can I standardize something like that. Besides using a stencil and a rattle can is not my idea of hand-painting.

 

[Stacey K]

This particular guy has 4 sizes. 20, 25, 30 and 40 yarders. However, because he buys many reconditioned cans, they vary in configurations, so almost every can that comes in, has varying size requirements or more that can go on then the last one of the same size. No way can I standardize something like that. Besides using a stencil and a rattle can is not my idea of hand-painting.

Definitely the kind of job that's easier to do at the shop.

 

[neutrinocv]

This particular guy has 4 sizes. 20, 25, 30 and 40 yarders. However, because he buys many reconditioned cans, they vary in configurations, so almost every can that comes in, has varying size requirements or more that can go on then the last one of the same size. No way can I standardize something like that. Besides using a stencil and a rattle can is not my idea of hand-painting.

I'll repeat what I proposed on a previous post: when a customer's job needs to take a good part of your shop for it being done in-shop (hence a 20-30-40 yd crate), just make it a policy to take a deposit (100 - 200 $) cash or credit card upon making the apointment clearly stating that the amount will be yours to keep in case of a less than 24 hours cancellation or a no-show and if everything goes as scheduled you will apply the deposited amount as partial payment of the job. Understandable,clear and simple.

 

[Snydo]

It sounds like this guy has employees fully capable of slapping vinyl on a dumpster, rather than p!ssing him off, why not side sell him piles of decals in various sizes that he can use to get his cans in the field and making money. Which is what he is doing now - at your expense.

 

[Gino]

I'll repeat what I proposed on a previous post: when a customer's job needs to take a good part of your shop for it being done in-shop (hence a 20-30-40 yd crate), just make it a policy to take a deposit (100 - 200 $) cash or credit card upon making the apointment clearly stating that the amount will be yours to keep in case of a less than 24 hours cancellation or a no-show and if everything goes as scheduled you will apply the deposited amount as partial payment of the job. Understandable,clear and simple.

So, you're inkling that I take a $200 deposit, non-refundable, if he doesn't show up ?? And if he does, I just apply it to that particular job. That sounds worse than my original OP.

 

[Gino]

It sounds like this guy has employees fully capable of slapping vinyl on a dumpster, rather than p!ssing him off, why not side sell him piles of decals in various sizes that he can use to get his cans in the field and making money. Which is what he is doing now - at your expense.

That's one of the reasons we're doing it now. His guys can barely drive straight. He's like the plumbers and race car drivers that come to this site wanting to be sign makers. Has the money, but no smarts whatsoever. He finally wised up after talking to me. We're now close to around dumpster 20. He's just testing the waters to try and be in charge, but I'm gonna put the brakes on.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I understand deposits for a project that you have to layout money and materials on but to hold a spot is a bad idea. Our attorney told us that if push came to shove, you would have to prove how much their actions caused you and you wouldn't be able to keep above that. Plus, do you really want to fight someone when they come back in asking for their money back when you haven't laid out anything? What do you do when he shows up 2 weeks later? Keep his original deposit and tell him too bad? To me, the best way still to deal with these situations is to not make any provisions or start any work until it shows up. Their busy business is no more important than mine to me and they can wait just the same.

 

[neutrinocv]

It's basicaly a deposit on the time slot in your shop. You choose the amount worth the trouble it creates if he cancels or no-shows; be it 50$ to a thousand dollars, that's up to you. I think a reasonable amount is 250$ imo. Cancellation immunity for the customer should be at least 24+ hours minimum prior to time set apointment. Would be 48+ as far as I'm concerned to leave ample time for scheduling other jobs instead. If the customer does cancel before the end of immunity then you refund or you can even re-schedule keeping the deposit active. When the customer shows up at due time then the paid deposit becomes a partial payment on the job. The deposit becomes non-refundable and the customer's loss if he cancels after the immunity period and/or no shows.

Of course this is all in writing in you quote/workorder that he has agreed to in signing. The payment of the deposit makes the set apointment official and binding. Of course you need to reciprocate by respecting the set apointment.

This is basically the same thing as when you make a reservation for a hotel or campground for example... They will ask for a deposit that becomes non-refundable should you cancel (after the immunity period) or no-show.

I don't see where this is problematic or that you can lose. Believe me, with a few hundred bucks on the line, your guy will show up on time or will at least give you a proper heads-up for cancelling or rescheduling. These are pretty standard terms in many types of businesses. Your guy probably has the same provisions his dumpster rentals. If he does not agree to such terms then wish him good luck and take another call.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I still vote for the talking stick idea. I'm sure Gino will report back that everything went well and the customer apologized.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

It's basicaly a deposit on the time slot in your shop. You choose the amount worth the trouble it creates if he cancels or no-shows; be it 50$ to a thousand dollars, that's up to you. I think a reasonable amount is 250$ imo. Cancellation immunity for the customer should be at least 24+ hours minimum prior to time set apointment. Would be 48+ as far as I'm concerned to leave ample time for scheduling other jobs instead. If the customer does cancel before the end of immunity then you refund or you can even re-schedule keeping the deposit active. When the customer shows up at due time then the paid deposit becomes a partial payment on the job. The deposit becomes non-refundable and the customer's loss if he cancels after the immunity period and/or no shows.

Of course this is all in writing in you quote/workorder that he has agreed to in signing. The payment of the deposit makes the set apointment official and binding. Of course you need to reciprocate by respecting the set apointment.

This is basically the same thing as when you make a reservation for a hotel or campground for example... They will ask for a deposit that becomes non-refundable should you cancel (after the immunity period) or no-show.

I don't see where this is problematic or that you can lose. Believe me, with a few hundred bucks on the line, your guy will show up on time or will at least give you a proper heads-up for cancelling or rescheduling. These are pretty standard terms in many types of businesses. Your guy probably has the same provisions his dumpster rentals. If he does not agree to such terms then wish him good luck and take another call.

Or just tell people you don't do anything until the vehicle/item is dropped off. Then theres no disclaimers, contracts, arguing, bad reviews, losing customers, threats from attorneys, complaints to the state licensing boards etc.

 

[ColorCrest]

I'll also let him know, I've been waiving our stadard 'no show' charge, but I can no longer do that.

It's often a matter of record that this type of line item shows on an invoice. As you've mentioned, like a dentist office billing system.
<<$75 no-show fee waived by Gino. No charge.>>
You know his demeanor. How might he react to a fee he never know of?

It's in my software as a menu item and a note item because different CSRs write orders for different customers.

 

[Gino]

No, I haven't put it in writing, although we do have a line item stating this very thing, in our software. Never saw a need to do it with this guy and if he doesn't take it well, after I have mentioned it to him before, he'll understand this time or else. I'm not gonna play any reindeer games with him. It either will be or it won't.

I've gotten to an age where I don't really care. I don't wanna chase work away, but there seems to be more important things on my plate at the moment. I wish I would've taken this stance years ago.

 

[Robert Armerding]

No, I haven't put it in writing, although we do have a line item stating this very thing, in our software. Never saw a need to do it with this guy and if he doesn't take it well, after I have mentioned it to him before, he'll understand this time or else. I'm not gonna play any reindeer games with him. It either will be or it won't.

I've gotten to an age where I don't really care. I don't wanna chase work away, but there seems to be more important things on my plate at the moment. I wish I would've taken this stance years ago.

Gino See what you think about this. Ask yourself which approach has the lowest risk of something going wrong? Let me pick up on your phrase, "he'll understand this time or else." What do you see might be some of the not so nice results on the "...or else," side? On the other side, if you want him to understand you, then the best chance for that is if he first feels that you understand him. You do not need to agree with him at all, but he does need to feel understood before he might even remotely want to understand you. My key point, start with what will produce the lowest risk. Back on the "...or else" side, my concern is if he does not feel understood, he could take all kinds of actions that will not be in your best interests.
Then, back to the "he'll understand..." side, think about this: using your listening skills to get to a point where he truly does feel that you understand him might take five or ten minutes. Is it worth that time to reduce your risk level?

 

[Gino]

Robert, there is only one real conclusion here. He is coming to our shop for services. He sought me out. I never went after him. When doing business with anyone, from a minister, to a trash hauler, there's always gonna be conflict, if the two parties do not agree on certain things. So far, it's my rules, my place and my time. He's on a power trip and I'm gonna either break him or send him on his way. Kinda simple. No need for reindeer games. You get to a point, playing Dr Phil and sh!t, just really don't matter.

I don't need to understand anything on his end. I do not care what is going on in his life, business or head. He is in my place, so I rule and he is trying to override that lately. He wants command. That's where the "or else" comes in. As I mentioned several times before, I don't wanna lose him, but I'm not paying games.

Facts are : we letter said can. We get paid for our job. He's happy & I'm happy. He's messed with that and causing waves. You want me to sit down and find out what's on his mind ?? For what ?? If I understand him better, is he gonna not be tardy ?? I don't think so, but then I don't think I care to find out, either. I have too many other things going on and he's slowly becoming a liability. Ya gotta know when to let go and stop wasting time. What did Kenny Rogers say ??

 

[neutrinocv]

Or just tell people you don't do anything until the vehicle/item is dropped off. Then theres no disclaimers, contracts, arguing, bad reviews, losing customers, threats from attorneys, complaints to the state licensing boards etc.

Grounds for arguing are very soft when somebody does not respect a contract rule he or she has agreed to in signing and payment. Personally, I don't mind getting a bad review from somebody who can't even respect his or her own signature.

Trying to have a good and reputable business is a very much doable thing and it takes a fair amount of effort and goodwill but trying to have the perfect business with the perfect record is impossible and will run you and your business into a big, fat concrete wall. I too would love to be the owner of the perfect business but winning the war means giving up on certain battles...

Like Colorcrest said; such a fee can always be waived off (at your own convenience) and shows some kind of record of goodwill towards your customer.