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Discussion Not sure where this is all coming from..............................................

Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Since I've been here in the early 2000's, questions on pricing, costs of doing this or that, cost for overhead and whatever else one can think of has come up from time to time. There's been discussions..... even arguments over it, but it's usually been just here and there. Now, in the last year or so, something more popular than where to buy cheap ink or vinyl or how to fix your own problem printer is or what font is this.........

* how do you price this ??
* how do I find this cost ??
* how much do other people pay for such & such ??
* how can I figure this price out faster ??
* how can I be more competitive pricing this or that out ??

Why or how, does anybody think what Joe Bloe needs to get to keep his doors open is what Susie Cream Cheese needs to keep her doors open ?? What ever happened to figuring out what is needed to go into a project and do a little math and come up with a perfect number ?? Is everyone that busy, that they need to have a 2 or 3 hour calculation only take 2 minutes to print out ?? Are you all that careless, that you think you're gonna omit needed information ?? Does anyone have a sh!t factor in their calculations ?? Does everyone need to know exactly what you make, down to the penny on each and every job ?? Is your business that big, that pennies are that critical ??

Just wondering, cause I'm seeing it left and right and just thinking to myself..... how can all these dummies be working in this business ??


:thankyou:
 
WhiskeyDreamer

WhiskeyDreamer

Professional Snow Ninja
it's because a large amount of the people who own sign shops have little to no training in either running a sign shop, nor a business. they bought a printer and thought they could make signs. so they didn't learn basics. that's why they have to ask so many questions, because they didn't learn from a person that knew more than them. they bought a printer and started a business. because it's easy, right?
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
So, the company that has 2 crane trucks, 3 bucket trucks, 5 vans, an electrical department, silk screen setup, 2 flatbeds, several roll-to-roll printers, a vacuum setup, laminators , a cnc and 4 people in graphics and a fistful of fabricators and installers....... what they get to do a job is what Harry doing this in his dining room and has a wrap shop in his one bay garage should get ?? This is how these people are thinking. No one considers talent level, media parameters, craftsmanship, workmanship or really nothing else, just what do you get to.......................... ??
 
rjssigns

rjssigns

Active Member
Said it before I'll say it again. People are getting lazy and the internet has given rise to a whole new class of slackers. Come here asking the most basic how-to questions then get salty when you call them on it.
Crack a book or better yet get a job at a shop that does the things you want to learn. No substitute for "seat" time. Don't care what job it is you need to put in the time to get good at it.
Watching YouTube videos ain't gonna cut it. Maybe that's where all these hacks come from?
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Intellectual laziness.
The real question here is, who is Susie Cream Cheese? Do you have her number because she sounds like fun?
 
Scotchbrite

Scotchbrite

No comment
It's easier to ask someone else for the answer instead of finding it yourself. I have a buddy that does that to me all the time. I just text him back and tell him "IDK, Google it yourself". But I think he's figured out I like to be a know it all and I'll just tell him the answer anyway, if I know it.
 
signbrad

signbrad

New Member
Yes, it is a mistake to set prices based on what others charge. Too many variables. I used to call other (friendly) shops to help me with pricing and even to figure an hourly rate. After I hired an accountant on a retainer plan ($30 per month), I realized my mistake.

Three allies you should be in some kind of relationship with:
An accountant.
A banker.
A lawyer.

And, eventually, a broker.

If it's possible, marry one of them.:)

The hardest part for me was learning how to figure a shop rate. One that covered all overhead and expenses, not just production time.
I told the accountant, "I don't charge by the hour, I charge by the job." He said, "You still have an hourly rate—you just don't know what it is."
I found out, for example, that the 1/3 of my time that I spent in my truck was not compensated for—I was working those hours for free. And the hours I spent bookkeeping and billing were free hours, too.
I also learned that profit was not what I paid myself. It was what was left over after paying myself, along with paying everyone else.

I have loved making signs. But it's far more important to make money. For the risks and problems associated with entrepreneurship, you should make a lot more money than the guy working at the factory. My banker said there's nothing wrong with sign painting as a hobby if you're doing it because you love it. He said tp just work at the factory for the money and then do signs for the hobby. Then charge as little or as much as you want.
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
1.JPG
 
WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
All about education and how it is handled and how that is passed down to the next generation. Given that we are talking about math, math has become quite problematic in today's world. I can only see this getting worse.

Brave new world, at least it better be.
 
Z SIGNS

Z SIGNS

New Member
Can you help me I'm having trouble tying my shoes. Can't seem to get it right. Is there any tips on how to do this properly?
Also I have a question about x acto blades.
One side cut me and I needed stiches the other side was friendlier.
What side do I use to cut my canvass?
 
Johnny Best

Johnny Best

Active Member
Susie Cream cheese was a someone made up by Frank Zappa. She hung out with the Muffin Man.
I never got my scissors back from Robert.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
JBurton said:
I can't speak with certainty, since I haven't been here since the glory days, but I'd guess sometime around the advent of the latex 300 series. If you talked to a salesman at a particular point in time, they'd tell you to buy a mobo from an old printer off ebay to save $3k or whatever it was, blam, everybody's a 'print shop'
Click to expand...
Way before then you bought a 4B and blam, everyone's a sign maker. They haven't made a computer that can fix stupid yet but watch out when they do.
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I don't understand the pricing hurdles. From the first job I ever did, I could figure out the cost / overhead and profit. If I'm quoting something that I am unfamiliar with, I might secrete shop around to other sign companies and see what they are quoting.. just to find out how much I could reasonably charge and still get the job... making sure I'm not over doing it but also not leaving $$ on the table. If you don't know how to figure a cost and make money, you are really going to have a tough time in business.
 
Johnny Best

Johnny Best

Active Member
Texas_Signmaker said:
I don't understand the pricing hurdles. From the first job I ever did, I could figure out the cost / overhead and profit. If I'm quoting something that I am unfamiliar with, I might secrete shop around to other sign companies and see what they are quoting.. just to find out how much I could reasonably charge and still get the job... making sure I'm not over doing it but also not leaving $$ on the table. If you don't know how to figure a cost and make money, you are really going to have a tough time in business.
Click to expand...
Tex you are a phenomenon, just happens rarely.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Texas_Signmaker said:
I don't understand the pricing hurdles. From the first job I ever did, I could figure out the cost / overhead and profit. If I'm quoting something that I am unfamiliar with, I might secrete shop around to other sign companies and see what they are quoting.. just to find out how much I could reasonably charge and still get the job... making sure I'm not over doing it but also not leaving $$ on the table. If you don't know how to figure a cost and make money, you are really going to have a tough time in business.
Click to expand...
Overhead:
Engine repairs on the expedition $50/month
Broken back window on the expedition $150
Bungee cords to hold the ladders $10
SR22 insurance $125/mo
Fast food travel expense $5/day
Gas $100/month after factoring in the weekly pump and run
Shed payment $75/month
60 hours a week = $3/hr overhead
Labors free cuz you're doing the work yourself.
You run a tight ship
 
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