Now, that's low..................................

[Gino]

Okay, so regardless if you use Old Paint's accounting methods or Tim's newer way, the fact still remains..... how can anyone do a banner full bleed, printed, hemmed grommeted for 40¢ a square foot in bulk ?? Seems to me, the more you sell at this price, the faster you're gonna go out of business.

Just think about it, again using either method [above] of figuring this stuff out, you have materials cost, printing costs, inks, phone time, employee time, paper towels, crap breaks, cigarette breaks, overhead [electric, insurances, heating/cooling, water, sewer] and whatever else you wanna throw in and then your profit and don't forget that little thing called taxes. So, if this is all true, that basic material can only be about 9¢ in it's raw state. How can the company supplying that to this company make anything ?? There is something terribly wrong with this picture and I believe we're all a visual kinda group, so this should strike a cord somewhere.

 

[FireSprint.com]

40 cents is probably a gimmick.

But let's just say a company had a $700,000 printer that could run 4000sqft/hour.

140 working hours in a month:

Monthly Payment per hour - $150/hour
4 Operators - $200/hour
Machine Maint - $50/hour
Rent & Utilities for the space needed - $100/hour
Material Cost $.15 x 4000 = $600
Ink Cost $.06 x 4000 = $240

Total Cost Per Hour - $1340
+ 5% Waste = $1407

I think this is a conservative estimate with 4 operators and a heck of a piece of equipment running full throttle would cost under 36 cents per square during daytime hours to operate assuming you could keep the machine running for 140hrs a month.

Now once you run at 140hrs in a month, the second and third shift could step in and operate at under 29 cents per square.

I am oversimplifying this a little, but it's doable if you run a large scale extremely high volume operation. Whether or not someone is crazy enough to do it is another story though.

We sell stuff every once in a while well below market value in select instances because we are paying our overhead and employees either way, might as well have them print something.

 

[TimToad]

I've been reading old paint stuff for 17 years, in fact he was calling himself old paint at my age. I have to admit that a few times he's been right on the money, I also know quite a few times where I question his sanity and maybe perhaps he should get a brain scan. You do some mighty fine work Tim, it's obvious you've been doing it a very long time. In 10 or 15 years I'm sure you'll appreciate old paint's quirkiness, but I also understand the urge to pound your head against the wall reading his rambling rants.

I think even he would be surprised at how much more we have in common than what divides us.

This place is something different for everyone who uses it. Some just want to offer advice, some want to make friends, enemies, etc. I have my own reasons and I'd say 99% of them are positive and supportive. I'm also a smartass who gives and takes with the best of them, so when a thread starts devolving, I sometimes can't resist diving in. The camaraderie I share with most of you is the main reason I check in. When it gets too toxic or serious, I have other distractions from the stress of daily life to amuse myself with.

I'll admit to having a bit of sadistic fun with Old Paint and Gino on a few threads from time to time, but deep down I respect the both of them more than they think.

On this thread, I was a bit surprised that it even got started by the OP because he was the person the last few days most vociferously shrugging off concerns about the overt dehumanization, commodification and automation of channel letter manufacturing. Which by the way is a nearly identical set of issues as are being raised in this thread. I'd love to hear the difference about why we should get all up in arms over one but not the other.

 

[Gino]

I'll get back to ya on that one. Just got home and gonna go to a magic show tonight. Just having fun this weekend, so we'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

[OldPaint]

and your right toad..............all i was making a point off.............is the decline in VALUE OF THE PRODUCT.......... that when it was strictly those WHO had the talent and ability...........WE GOT PAID WELL.
NOW.........ITS LIKE MCDONALDS........ produce more for less per unit, but make it fast, and cheap without much concern as to its content.......AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THE MACHINE RUNNING)))))))))))))))))

 

[GAC05]

Sadly the ban on lead in One Shot came to late for some......

•High blood pressure
•Abdominal pain
•Constipation
•Joint pains
•Muscle pain
•Declines in mental functioning
•Pain, numbness or tingling of the extremities
•Headache
•Memory loss
•Mood disorders
•Reduced sperm count, abnormal sperm
(mayoclinic.org)


wayne k
guam usa

 

[TimToad]

"Okay, so regardless if you use Old Paint's accounting methods or Tim's newer way,"

Tim's "newer" way?

I didn't realize that hiring a CPA, keeping a good, honest set of records and taking full advantage of all the deductions, exemptions, credits and depreciations allowed was some newfangled way of accounting. Thanks to Quickbooks, it certainly has gotten easier and less exhausting.

Been doing it that way for at least the last 25 years.

 

[Gino]

Tim's "newer" way?

I didn't realize that hiring a CPA, keeping a good, honest set of records and taking full advantage of all the deductions, exemptions, credits and depreciations allowed was some newfangled way of accounting. Thanks to Quickbooks, it certainly has gotten easier and less exhausting.

Been doing it that way for at least the last 25 years.

You were the one defining Old Paint's ways being of the past. You referred to his old methods. You also mentioned how in his old days he could've ended the US Treasury. You made it sound as if you have a new way. The both of you arguing is senseless. If you two wanna measure it, start your own thing and take it outside, thank you. This seems to be an interesting thread for some, but sometimes people go off halfcocked, huh ??