one last shot lol

[CES020]

The issue is that OP thinks that he's just going to "get" how to design just based on some critique, tips and tricks that he's going to get from this forum. The fact is that it can't fully be expressed in just a few short sentences all of the things you can do right or wrong when it comes to design.

The American and Canadian schools of higher education have concluded that it takes roughly 4 years to fully grasp and learn all of the ins and outs of graphics design and charges tens of thousands of dollars to teach it to us.(Or in the past - equivalent years of on-the-job experience with a skilled mentor to guide you). That includes subtle concepts learned in typography, art history, graphic design history(Bauhaus anyone?) marketing, etc etc etc.....so to think that you can just figure it out...like riding a bike or crocheting is the root of the problem here.

And from the other thread which started this whole ordeal it's clear that he has no plans to educate himself now or in the future and just wants to learn by trial and error. I'm sorry but that may work with fence painting but it doesn't work with this. We may be able to painstakingly walk him through this logo design until something mediocre comes out the other end but it's not going to help him with any future design endeavours.

He's still coming back and trying. Doesn't mean he's going to be a graphic designer by the end of this thread, it means he's trying to learn and understand something relative to his own company name. I've seen probably 100's of "pros" on this site list their company names or links to their websites and their logos are worse than some of what's shown here. So just because you are a graphic designer, doesn't mean you're perfect either. I've seen some horrific stuff done by "properly educated" graphic designers.

One of the top posters on this site posted their logo when they were working through it and it was one of the worst things I think I've ever seen on this forum. That person was told repeatedly "it's horrible, don't use it", and they didn't listen.

I give the person credit for wanting to learn. He might not get it on this thread, but maybe all the discussion pushes him to learn more about graphic design over the upcoming years.

 

[DesireeM]

He's still coming back and trying. Doesn't mean he's going to be a graphic designer by the end of this thread, it means he's trying to learn and understand something relative to his own company name. I've seen probably 100's of "pros" on this site list their company names or links to their websites and their logos are worse than some of what's shown here. So just because you are a graphic designer, doesn't mean you're perfect either. I've seen some horrific stuff done by "properly educated" graphic designers.

One of the top posters on this site posted their logo when they were working through it and it was one of the worst things I think I've ever seen on this forum. That person was told repeatedly "it's horrible, don't use it", and they didn't listen.

I give the person credit for wanting to learn. He might not get it on this thread, but maybe all the discussion pushes him to learn more about graphic design over the upcoming years.

You can always make the argument that "some pros" suck at graphic design....that's not really a useful point. Neither is bringing up what a "top poster" on the site decided to do with the same advice...how is that even relevant? There will always be people with more or less skill than others.


I give him credit for wanting to learn as well but the POINT which you don't seem to get either is that the road to hell was paved with good intentions. As in - it doesn't matter if he means well.....whether this is a one-time thing or he plans to offer it as a service, the reason it seems to be such a daunting task for him and why he's getting so much negative feedback over and over again is because he just doesn't have the knowledge to make educated decisions about designing the logo.

He will continue to be carried through the process until he decides he's done asking for advice and the result will be something that wasn't really designed by him. It'll be the demented ******* child of a signs101 forum gang bang.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

He will continue to be carried through the process until he decides he's done asking for advice and the result will be something that wasn't really designed by him. It'll be the demented ******* child of a signs101 forum gang bang.

:ROFLMAO: true.

 

[CES020]

You can always make the argument that "some pros" suck at graphic design....that's not really a useful point. Neither is bringing up what a "top poster" on the site decided to do with the same advice...how is that even relevant? There will always be people with more or less skill than others.


I give him credit for wanting to learn as well but the POINT which you don't seem to get either is that the road to hell was paved with good intentions. As in - it doesn't matter if he means well.....whether this is a one-time thing or he plans to offer it as a service, the reason it seems to be such a daunting task for him and why he's getting so much negative feedback over and over again is because he just doesn't have the knowledge to make educated decisions about designing the logo.

He will continue to be carried through the process until he decides he's done asking for advice and the result will be something that wasn't really designed by him. It'll be the demented ******* child of a signs101 forum gang bang.

No, I do get it. I've been in his shoes. I posted on this forum asking for help with our logo. I've been through the same thing. I'm not a graphic designer, but I wanted to jump in and learn. You know what I learned? I shouldn't even consider offering design as a service that I can offer. Since that day, some years ago, I've constantly studied magazines, books, websites, been to every seminar I can go to at trade shows that deal with it, and I'm trying to get to where my knowledge allows me to offer a select set of services.

I drive around my town every day looking at some of the worst designed signs and vehicle wraps on the planet. Many of them were done by companies that should know better, companies with in house graphic designers. So I'm not sure that I'm as unqualified as I think I am, but I'm certainly gaining ground on them and once I reach a point I'm comfortable with, I'll be able to put our high quality designs that I'm not seeing around town now.

While it might not appear that he's learning what you want him to learn, he might be learning something way bigger.

 

[DesireeM]

While it might not appear that he's learning what you want him to learn, he might be learning something way bigger.

I sure as hell hope so.

 

[Rick]

I want the hour of my life back it took reading all 3 threads.

 

[Rick]

No, I do get it. I've been in his shoes. I posted on this forum asking for help with our logo. I've been through the same thing. I'm not a graphic designer, but I wanted to jump in and learn. You know what I learned? I shouldn't even consider offering design as a service that I can offer. Since that day, some years ago, I've constantly studied magazines, books, websites, been to every seminar I can go to at trade shows that deal with it, and I'm trying to get to where my knowledge allows me to offer a select set of services.

I drive around my town every day looking at some of the worst designed signs and vehicle wraps on the planet. Many of them were done by companies that should know better, companies with in house graphic designers. So I'm not sure that I'm as unqualified as I think I am, but I'm certainly gaining ground on them and once I reach a point I'm comfortable with, I'll be able to put our high quality designs that I'm not seeing around town now.

While it might not appear that he's learning what you want him to learn, he might be learning something way bigger.

Geez, that was 5 years ago...

You can learn a lot in 5 years....

What's nice about your thread/logo was it got me a good portfolio piece and ended
up in Signcraft, probably should have tried for an Addy or some other design award.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Geez, that was 5 years ago...

You can learn a lot in 5 years....

What's nice about your thread/logo was it got me a good portfolio piece and ended
up in Signcraft, probably should have tried for an Addy or some other design award.

What logo was that?

 

[CES020]

Geez, that was 5 years ago...

You can learn a lot in 5 years....

What's nice about your thread/logo was it got me a good portfolio piece and ended
up in Signcraft, probably should have tried for an Addy or some other design award.

Yeah, not as much as you'd think I still don't offer design services because I don't think I should. However, after looking at all the crap running around town by the "pro's" in the business (all the franchises that advertise on radio all the time), I think I can do better than that.

I think it's an important part of running a shop, knowing what you are and aren't good at. I know what I'm good at and I try to stick with that. I shy away from things I'm not good at so I don't set myself up for failure. I subbed out some wrap job designs recently and what I got back from the seasoned graphic designed made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

Let's face it, there aren't many Dan Antonelli's, Joe Diaz's, or Rick's running around sign shops. My guess is the vast majority of sign shops are good at making signs, but maybe not as good at designing them. I only base that on the ugly things I see every day done by company's that have been in business for decades.