One whacked customer!

[wedosigns]

I have a customer that is opening a new store. They came to us for the majority of their new signs. They started small(partially because I get paid upfront) by ordering a set of vehicle magnets. They actually wanted to see them being printed. They now ordered two sets. They then ordered decals for ten of their store windows plus install. After they were printed they wanted them droped off at the store so they could look at them before they are installed. They have had them for a week now, and have not had a chance to look at them.
Today they ordered 400 lawn signs, but wanted a one off silk screened so they "can see it". Told them no way, and could do one in vinyl for $22 or send them the image. They chose the image, lol.
All the designs were done with them infront of my computer, so I just don't see the need for these one offs.
They still want wall murals, posters and a partial wrap!
The process with these people is really frustrating!

 

[JoshLoring]

Hahaha! Isn't it sometimes?!
Don't worry.. It only gets better.

 

[grafixemporium]

It's up to you to set the boundaries. It's best to do that early on. If something is more trouble than it's worth, find a way to explain to your customer that it's not cost effective to do it. Producing one-offs for every job is not cost effective or the best use of your time. After one or two jobs they should be confident enough if you capabilities. A digital proof should be sufficient.

 

[4R Graphics]

I agree with grafix. You need to lay the ground rules out up front. You can do 1 offs sometimes you just have to but when you do charge for every bit of your time and materials after one or two they usually stop do to cost and the fact they trust you. But really you need to charge for it all and dont let your customers tell you how you are going to run your business.

The biggest problem in this industry on the small business side is to many people let the customer tell them how to run the business and or pricing.

Next time you go out try and haggle the price at any company most will tell you you hell no. So why do we let our customers do this?

 

[visual800]

thorough? contol freaks?...nope I call them paranoid. keep them if they are paying and as far as coming over to the shop for family production day, I would stop that. Some customers are on crack they wanna see, feel touch, make love roll around on the shop floor with their signs. people are so jacked up in the head.

 

[Locals Find!]

Spec samples (one off samples) are fairly common in the Promotional Products industry. I know when I order them for clients we pay a full setup charge for the product plus a spec fee. Usually comes out to about $65-$75.

If a client is willing to pay for it. Give it to them. I would tell them up front though your not going to rush it. They will get it when you have time between larger jobs to make it.

 

[Jillbeans]

I blame technology.
Computers, while being handy-dandy, etc, have removed the mystique from sign making.
Change your policy immediately so as to NEVER design with a customer looking over your shoulder.
That gives them too much control, and hinders your design skills.
It also wastes huge amounts of time.
("Can I see that in red? Can you switch it back to blue?")
Deal with your client in a walk-in "showroom" type area with no computers, or only a monitor on your counter.
Never let a customer into your production area.
Blame it on your liability insurance. They have no business in there anyway.
I suspect that since they have seen how much fun you are having, added to the fact that they are a control freak, that it won't be too long until they buy their own sign making stuff.
Love....Jill

 

[sdodson1]

I blame technology.
Computers, while being handy-dandy, etc, have removed the mystique from sign making.
Change your policy immediately so as to NEVER design with a customer looking over your shoulder.
That gives them too much control, and hinders your design skills.
It also wastes huge amounts of time.
("Can I see that in red? Can you switch it back to blue?")
Deal with your client in a walk-in "showroom" type area with no computers, or only a monitor on your counter.
Never let a customer into your production area.
Blame it on your liability insurance. They have no business in there anyway.
I suspect that since they have seen how much fun you are having, added to the fact that they are a control freak, that it won't be too long until they buy their own sign making stuff.
Love....Jill

Well said! When I started 13+ years ago I enjoyed having a customer working with me on there design but these days the enjoyable customers are few and far between!

 

[thinksigns]

There are definitely down sides to designing with the customer there, but I think it helps us. We have a sign with the below on it right next to the computer, so they know when they start paying. I think that it helps us turn those that came in initially to just get pricing to go ahead and order. I will finish the design before I ask their input and I usually only ask about color. They feel a sort of ownership of the sign since they "helped" and they'll go ahead and place the order.

It seems like the best thing to do, considering how much is spent on advertising to get people in the store, is to turn it into a sale once they are there.

 

[RobbyMac]

The previous owner had a real knack for this. He'd steer the customer the entire time, but when it was all said and done, the customer thought they damn near designed it themselves. They just want to be involved... It usually is their company/product/whatever anyways...
I struggle with it myself... But there are oftentimes after I spend upteen emails and revisions that I will setup a 'sit down' with the customer... Those usually save me time because I can get instant feedback, and helps cut time on the approval process.

I find this happens often with newer customers. Once you get a relationship going, you have a knack for understanding what they are looking for... and I believe they trust us more after a few jobs under the belt.

 

[MatthewTimothy]

i always say if a customer wants me to design their with them, charge them an hour labor plus 50% because it will take you twice as long to do it with them there. PAID UPFRONT and a min charge of 1 hour.

 

[TammieH]

The customer has a right to see proofs if needed, for color correctness ..etc. but jeez! Are they going to ask to see the vehicle wrap prior to application?

 

[MatthewTimothy]

The customer has a right to see proofs if needed, for color correctness ..etc. but jeez! Are they going to ask to see the vehicle wrap prior to application?

well yes, they will want him to create a video so they can play it back to their favorite song

 

[TammieH]

I blame technology.
Computers, while being handy-dandy, etc, have removed the mystique from sign making.
Change your policy immediately so as to NEVER design with a customer looking over your shoulder.
That gives them too much control, and hinders your design skills.
It also wastes huge amounts of time.
("Can I see that in red? Can you switch it back to blue?")
Deal with your client in a walk-in "showroom" type area with no computers, or only a monitor on your counter.
Never let a customer into your production area.
Blame it on your liability insurance. They have no business in there anyway.
I suspect that since they have seen how much fun you are having, added to the fact that they are a control freak, that it won't be too long until they buy their own sign making stuff.
Love....Jill

I agree Jill, back before computers we would do a mock-up or layout using colored pencils, some sign painters would go the extra mile and do something with gouache paint. All in all they had to trust us...now-a-days everyone has a computer and Everyone is a graphic artist in their own minds. In a lot of ways computers have made things easier and less monotonous, but customers can kill us with design changes.

 

[Patentagosse]

These days, customers are driving me crazy. Back in the days, I just sketched roughly a van shape, put few items, all black & white and got more jobs I could handle. In today's market, I still got more jobs I can handle but for another reason: they no longer trust us. There's so many joe-does-it-all in my area that are in graphic / sign business just because they have a computer and a cracked copy of Photoshop... as Jill mentioned, computers are helpfull but I miss the time we ran the ol' Gerber with 8 fonts... Nobody owned computers nor plotters around. Now we go out, take a digital picture of their vehicle, design everything over it... it's so realistic you put the picture of job done next to it and you can't tell who's who... but they still keep saying:

(this one's killer!)
- "yeah... it gives a rough idea of the overall look but I'd like to see it printed on your device, scaled for sure, to make sure it will be exactly as it appears on screen because $500 is a lot of money for 2 logos on my truck's doors"

I did the same jobs 15 years ago for the same $500 but w/o the customer over my shoulder, w/o intricate layouts, color proofing ('remember when we said: I have 2 reds, this one and this one...), approuval, contract...

The good ol' days...

*I'm more artist than business man to my deepest regrets. I'm having hard time trying to work as you suggest (deposit, get paid upfront for designs, not allowing customers next to design station, etc...) and mainly because no other shops in my neighborhood work like that. You should see the faces of prospects when I ask for money before starting a sketch...

- "What? you want me to drop $50 BEFORE you draw anything for me? Do you think I'm throwing away my hard-earned money w/o having an idea if I'll like your layout? No way man, I'm outta here..." (that's for people that just walk-in because they see the sign)

For other customers (the ones you see every 6 months / years / 5 years), they just don't get it: "hey, you've done jobs for me in the past, I paid you so why don't you trust me anymore? If you can't go for a repeat over the phone w/o a deposit, go f**k yourself I'll go somewhere else where they respect their clients"

Not easy everyday... I know it SHOULD be that way but it hurts my feelings more than my wallet. I agree with Jill, and Bearwen when he wrote: "The biggest problem in this industry on the small business side is too many people let the customers tell them how to run the business and / or pricing." I know, I admit... my bad.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

You can offer a small, printed sample for $10 or something. Not an actual size sample; just large enough to see the colors. It can protect you if the color comes out funky and you find out before you print 400 signs. Print the one and have them approve it. I don't do that all the time; maybe once every 3 months or so.

 

[AnotherSignManiac]

We have ran into this before, what we tell the customer is that the one off will be at shop minimum (25-45$) and then if they decide to go with the order that can go towards the rest of their order. That way if they say no we are covered for the one-off, but if they say yes they see they aren't getting screwed out of 45$ when the unit cost is say 5$

 

[wedosigns]

The coro signs are 2 color, and it is just a pita to print one signs with clean up, ect.
Their email today was that they were done inspecting the decals for the windows and would like the install schedualed so they can be present, to make sure everything is placed where it belongs, and make sure everything goes well.
WTF 12 decals placed at the top of the windows. This is not rocket science and placement has already been determined!
I am going to send them an email with placement for approval, and tell them I have out grown babysitters!

 

[ThinkRight]

The coro signs are 2 color, and it is just a pita to print one signs with clean up, ect.
Their email today was that they were done inspecting the decals for the windows and would like the install schedualed so they can be present, to make sure everything is placed where it belongs, and make sure everything goes well.
WTF 12 decals placed at the top of the windows. This is not rocket science and placement has already been determined!
I am going to send them an email with placement for approval, and tell them I have out grown babysitters!

Hahahaha
Control freaks
They sign the check.....They can dictate how you do your job.
But remember........."They sign the check"
Being your own boss ain't all it is cracked up to be huh ?
Deal with it with a smile and take the money like the whores we are.(sarc)

 

[HulkSmash]

i always say if a customer wants me to design their with them, charge them an hour labor plus 50% because it will take you twice as long to do it with them there. PAID UPFRONT and a min charge of 1 hour.

So you tell the customer that im charging you 1.5 hrs for 1 hr because you're here?


that's dumb, and wrong. No thanks.