Onyx swatches not matching output of the same value

[soggywinter]

I had a customer bring in an ACM sign to color match (one color text on white). I printed a swatch sheet from Onyx Go Plus on an Epson S40600 to get a CMYK value to match. The swatch value was used to set the text color in InDesign and the Indesign file was exported with as CMYK with a built in CMYK SWOP profile. I've tried ripping the PDF from Go Editor and Go Layout with visibly different results from each other and neither is accurate. I'm using a stock Grimco Briteline profile, but in theory that shouldn't matter because the swatch sheet and job are printed with the same profile. The text color is close, but not close in enough. Guidance on how to get a close or exact match would be appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[White Haus]

I've always assigned the cmyk values from the swatch right in Onyx (Color Replacement).

I find this will give accurate results. I believe the cmyk values on swatches are "output values" where as what you were using is "input values", but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ikarasu]

Yes, you have to change it in onyx otherwise Onyx will change the values to what it thinks it needs to be.

Your other option is to turn profiles off so it has no color correct, that way it will take your input values and use them without changing them.

It's very hard to get non-printer people to understand that concept... We've had many of reprints because of sales reps gets a color match then they rate that value in the art room sets it up and then it ends up being different.

We push for everybody to use pantones, we color match to the Pantone and then set Onyx up to automatically change the pantone to he correct CMYK value, that way it doesn't matter what your i
Workflow is, if you use the Pantone color Onyx will change it to the correct one.

 

[White Haus]

We push for everybody to use pantones, we color match to the Pantone and then set Onyx up to automatically change the pantone to he correct CMYK value, that way it doesn't matter what your i
Workflow is, if you use the Pantone color Onyx will change it to the correct one.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I find we spend way too much time doing manual color replacements for almost every job and would love to create workflows that automate some of those manual steps.

Is it a question of creating color filters that will pick up certain colors and edit output values to what you want?

Thanks!

 

[ikarasu]

If you click setup, rip configuration, color matching table -

Goto print mode defined. Select your material and print mode (this is the annoying part... I wish it was set material / printer wide, but it's not. We don't use too many different profiles so it works for us)

Select your print mode - click add... And you can set it up to always use the vinyl values you want when it sees that pantone.

Now it works for anything. You can call it "annoyingcustomeryellow" and everytime you save the spot color as annoyingcustomeryellow, it'll use those defined colors - no having to use color filters or manual change it.

We put it into our 3 most used profiles for latex - works great since our current printer operator has a goldfish memory and forgets to change our custom matched colors.. We don't have a huge list... But everytime we color match a Pantone, or check a pantones accuracy we throw it in.

 

[White Haus]

If you click setup, rip configuration, color matching table -

Goto print mode defined. Select your material and print mode (this is the annoying part... I wish it was set material / printer wide, but it's not. We don't use too many different profiles so it works for us)

Select your print mode - click add... And you can set it up to always use the vinyl values you want when it sees that pantone.

Now it works for anything. You can call it "annoyingcustomeryellow" and everytime you save the spot color as annoyingcustomeryellow, it'll use those defined colors - no having to use color filters or manual change it.

We put it into our 3 most used profiles for latex - works great since our current printer operator has a goldfish memory and forgets to change our custom matched colors.. We don't have a huge list... But everytime we color match a Pantone, or check a pantones accuracy we throw it in.

Awesome, thank you!! I can't believe I've never come across this before in Thrive. Was able to set it up exactly like you described....but not sure if it's picking it up. Does it usually show it anywhere under Named Color Replacement or Color Replacement? I'm assuming there should be some kind of visual confirmation that it's using the assigned output values.

Also just figured out how to create custom spot colors in Corel as I was playing around with this. Will come in handy!

 

[RabidOne]

Awesome, thank you!! I can't believe I've never come across this before in Thrive. Was able to set it up exactly like you described....but not sure if it's picking it up. Does it usually show it anywhere under Named Color Replacement or Color Replacement? I'm assuming there should be some kind of visual confirmation that it's using the assigned output values.

Also just figured out how to create custom spot colors in Corel as I was playing around with this. Will come in handy!

Select job properties, then Named Colours. If you see AnnoyingCustomerYellow in the list and your name matches, your replacement colour will work.
We have a rather large library and everyone here uses it.

 

[ikarasu]

It doesn't tell you it changed it.

But what you do is select color picker and hilight it, and it should be changed to the. Value that you have it setup to change to.


Again, it only works on specific profiles that you setup the match to, that's why it's called "print mode" so even changing something such as passes for a media will make it not switch which is annoying. I get that every media is a slightly different white... But I wish it was ripwide.

If you change it for 180 profile then you load ij40 and tell onyx it's ij40, it won't make the change unless you have it changed in ij40 as well.


It's one of the main reasons we load 90% of what we do under 1 material vs actually loading it under the correct profile.


And there may be a way to do it onyx wide vs profile, I was just getting into color correction and workflow setting up when I got promoted and put in a different role... I still use onyx daily at home, but never in a need to color match perfectly role, so it's not part of my workflow I still setup the work printer everytime we do a color mat h though, and doing it this way has allowed us to have consistant color for all our clients.

And if there's ever a shift in color due to new heads, or aging heads, or latex heads.... ... All you need to do is go back and change the pantone replacement value, and all your customer files are back to perfection.

Have 2 printers? Match pantone and replace on both.... And the same filles will come out perfectly on both printers.


it's a much, much better way to do color correcting then using color replaced and saving the profile imo. It allows you to ensure certain pantones are consistant across machines - and if you need to color match a pantone for a picky client, and "good enough" isn't good enough.. you can look in your list and see if you have a "perfect" match yet. Most people use a handful of pantones, so once you get a few dozen setup you'll do a lot less color corrections / matches.


I may play with it more now and see if there's a way to do it for the whole printer.... Sure would be nice!


I've been stuck in meetings / seminars all day, tomorrow too. On Friday I'll have time to play with it and see if there's a better way.

 

[White Haus]

It doesn't tell you it changed it.

But what you do is select color picker and hilight it, and it should be changed to the. Value that you have it setup to change to.


Again, it only works on specific profiles that you setup the match to, that's why it's called "print mode" so even changing something such as passes for a media will make it not switch which is annoying. I get that every media is a slightly different white... But I wish it was ripwide.

If you change it for 180 profile then you load ij40 and tell onyx it's ij40, it won't make the change unless you have it changed in ij40 as well.


It's one of the main reasons we load 90% of what we do under 1 material vs actually loading it under the correct profile.


And there may be a way to do it onyx wide vs profile, I was just getting into color correction and workflow setting up when I got promoted and put in a different role... I still use onyx daily at home, but never in a need to color match perfectly role, so it's not part of my workflow I still setup the work printer everytime we do a color mat h though, and doing it this way has allowed us to have consistant color for all our clients.

And if there's ever a shift in color due to new heads, or aging heads, or latex heads.... ... All you need to do is go back and change the pantone replacement value, and all your customer files are back to perfection.

Have 2 printers? Match pantone and replace on both.... And the same filles will come out perfectly on both printers.


it's a much, much better way to do color correcting then using color replaced and saving the profile imo. It allows you to ensure certain pantones are consistant across machines - and if you need to color match a pantone for a picky client, and "good enough" isn't good enough.. you can look in your list and see if you have a "perfect" match yet. Most people use a handful of pantones, so once you get a few dozen setup you'll do a lot less color corrections / matches.


I may play with it more now and see if there's a way to do it for the whole printer.... Sure would be nice!


I've been stuck in meetings / seminars all day, tomorrow too. On Friday I'll have time to play with it and see if there's a better way.

Thank you for the info!! I played around with it a bit and got it to work on one printer but not the next. Will explore more.
I agree it would be nice if it could apply to all profiles but I guess it wouldn't be accurate then, as each profile/mode will have different ink limits etc.
So output values for one profile wouldn't look the same on another....rendering the color inaccurate.

Appreciate you taking the time to explain this! Always exciting to learn new features about software I've been using for almost 10 years lol.