Open-Type fonts

[bob]

Bob, I have to take issue with your isolated attitude. You and the rest of us benefit immensely from the wide range of equipment, software and materials available to us. When a situation develops into a significant enough problem as to impact that availability or utility, we should all be concerned and seek to protect the interests we have in common with the vendor. That is simply in our own best interests.

Anyone can take any measures they deem necessary to protect their goodies. But do not expect me to alter my behavior an iota to accommodate whatever it is they choose to do. This does not mean that I don't empathize with them, especially having been in the software business. I'm not part of their problem and I damn well refuse to be part of their solution.

The point being that if someone's product is clumsy to use because of something that they decided to implement, regardless of their reason for doing so, then they have to suffer the results of their decisions, not me. Every human being on this planet is responsible for its own condition. Including those hawking software and its accouterments.

I learned long ago not to give undue reverence to equipment, including software. I use this stuff because it's convenient. When it ceases to be convenient, by my standards alone, then I'll op for a more efficient way. I can get by with a pointed stick and a clay tablet or a finger dipped in One Shot if I have to.

 

[Cadmn]

You can blame the a**holes that pirate fonts for whats going down.
Chuck got tired of people selling his fonts, trading them, and giving them away. I dont blame him for coming up with a way to defeat them.
If you have the newer versions of illustrator cs, and corel 12 or 13, the fonts will work fine in those programs.

Only problem I find with his thinking is if pirates can steal his fonts now does he think the pirates are gonna get dumb all of a sudden ? is he got better people than Microsoft as vista has already been cracked, as if vista was worth the trouble I read where most machines in businesses today can't even run it. one of the pc mags had big article on it.OH well hope his loosing customers from his own moves outweigh the loss from pirates

 

[mladams7259]

Pirates can crack or steal ANYTHING. There is a way around everything. LHF is just making in harder for legit users and giving the piraters (is that a word?) something to do.

 

[mark in tx]

I don't blame them for trying to protect their fonts.
Do I think they should have tested how the fonts will work with 2-3 of the most common font management programs before they released the fonts with the new protection?
Yes.

That is the only mistake I feel has been made.

Realistically, the protection will be cracked, and LHF will have to spend more time and money figuring out a new way. Just like any other piece of software out there.

 

[player]

It would be interesting to know what the impact of this security measure has had on his bottom line.

I wonder sometimes if pirating might be good for the software venders. It allows their product to be learned, sampled, and studied etc. by millions of people. If it is good, most legitimate companies that use it are legal. So if everybody uses their progy and are trained on it, then the company will probably buy and use it legitimately. At least that is my theory.

I guess fonts are different, and it seems like a tough market if there are sites offering them free...but there is still the loss of biz from the security.

I am not advocating piracy.



Player

 

[Mason]

Artsnletters
I think your on to something. If LHF has the time and inclination they could write a tutorial on how to work around some limitations. Then post that tutor into some protected folder. There the real customer could password his way into there and read that tutor and could over come any limitations.

I don't believe there are many people who would even think to use the font in illy and export the curves.

What makes you say that? any designer worth his/her salt uses Illustrator on a daily basis or programs with similar capabilities, and turns text to outlines all the time, why would it not occur to them?
I thought of it almost immediately, which is to say that if someone want to pirate LHF fonts bad enough they could spend an hour making a set with a new name and viola they have them..

The fact that I can own PS-CS2 and access the program files but I cant even locate a font on my machine placed there by some manipulative software programming is bothersome and in my opinion just plain wrong.

 

[Bigdawg]

So, put the shoe on the other foot. How would you feel if I was your client and chose not to do business with you anymore because you needed to install an alarm system to protect your livelyhood? After all, if you had to install an alarm system, it means that your place is unsafe and I shouln't patronize it, right?

Not the same to me. If you installed a seamless alarm system, then it would not effect how we do business together. If you install bodyguards at the door to search me, blindfolded me so I can't see exactly where things are located (so I can't steal them) and then sell me a product I can only use under the cover of darkness - for security's sake - well THAT would make me think twice before we did business.

I totally respect what Chuck feels he needs to do. But as an end-user it is my choice not to deal with it. Which is a shame because I LOVE Letterhead Fonts and own several. (Even got the t-shirt!) But converting to outlines is not an option when working in Pagemaker or Quark (okay - yes you can take steps to do it in Quark but it is a pain in the rear). My outlook may be different if I only used the fonts in Illustrator, but it is too limiting for me to have a font I can only use in one program.

 

[signage]

This all reminds me of cadd programs. Back in the 80 Bentley's MicroStation what light years ahead of Auto cad. But MicroStation was protected by a dongle, shift to toady and AutoCad sells more software than Bentley's MicroStation due to people not being able to learn MicroStation without buying a legal copy. In the early 90's Bentley allowed their program to run without the dongle but never did recover from this!

 

[jhsdesign]

The only thing a lock will do, is keep an honest man honest. It will only slow down the crook.

 

[Baz]

Have you looked in:
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Fonts\Reqrd\Base

I've got some type 1 fonts installed there for some reason. Wasnt me who set it to install in that directory.

This is on a Win98 machine also. I still use an old p3 700 for all my internet/e-mail uses. Its soon going to be replaced by an old p4 1.6g with Win98 installed on it as well (its been sitting on my shop floor for 2 years now). My production computer has WinXp on it but sometimes if it has trouble reading a customers cd, the Win98 pc will be able to get something out of it.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

"Ab-so-frig'n-lutely'! I just now found out that the OpenType format is an Adobe/MICROSOFT colaberation. Gotta Keep puchasing up,up,up and away!

 

[Fred Weiss]

The only thing a lock will do, is keep an honest man honest. It will only slow down the crook.

Yes ... but what works in all corners of the world is a good heavy dose of guilt. If you point out for long enough that something is wrong or that something is really against one's own best interests , you will sooner or later raise awareness to a point that the problem has become both manageable and minor.

 

[Fred Weiss]

"Ab-so-frig'n-lutely'! I just now found out that the OpenType format is an Adobe/MICROSOFT colaberation. Gotta Keep puchasing up,up,up and away!

And who do you think developed and owns the TrueType standard?

Apple.

Who has the most TrueType fonts installed in their operating systems.

Microsoft

OpenType is the first ever agreed upon standard to allow for fonts to work on both Windows and Macintosh operating systems. It also provides hundreds of extra cells for alternate characters. As things stand now, if I create a document using Helvetica Medium on a Macintosh version of Adobe Illustrator and the font I use is either a TrueType or a Type 1, if I open it on a Windows version of Illustrator with fonts of the same name installed, then the document will not look the same. With OpenType, the document supposedly will.

I personally think that the world is too far down the road with PDF for it to matter much because that technology negates what OpenType addresses for cross platform compatability ... unless you also require the ability to edit or add matching text on the second platform.

Time will tell but technology rarely moves backwards.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

please upgrade to XP if you have a pent 2 it will work with enough ram near 500mbs plus n 4 gigs HD drive Xp needs at least that plus enough HD for the rest my old 1998 pent 2 works well after adding 80 gigs do not get vista yet if ya get a new or used computer ... there are lots of fonts with the open type fonts much better then true type fonts ...thank you n enjoy life

 

[Chuck Davis]

Letterhead Fonts

Hi guys... Let's see if I can't help straighten out a few things...

I won't go into why I chose to protect the fonts. I think I've covered that pretty well on the Letterhead Fonts site. But I do want to clarify a few things:

Font Management
While it is true that you can't manage Letterhead Fonts in your font management program, this is only a temporary situation. We are developing a font management utility that will allow you to manage all your fonts in one place. And being a designer myself, I think we can even improve on what is currently available. For example... the ability to test the fonts out more would be nice. The good news is that we will sell this utility at a discount of $289. Only kidding! I have no intention of making people purchase another program to manage the fonts. It will of course be free. But if managing your fonts is important to you, you may want to wait until we get this done. Otherwise (if you are like me and would rather spend your time designing then managing fonts) you are free to enjoy the fonts.


Font Replacement
Should you lose your fonts due to a hard drive crash or maybe you purchase a new system-- you simply login to the Letterhead Fonts account and redownload your fonts. Optionally, you can save the installer to a CD. That works too.


Security Concerns
The installers don't do anything that most applications today don't already do. It retrieves a code from your computer and sends that to Letterhead Fonts. The only time the installer needs internet access is when it is verifying your computer. After that, you may block the installer if you like since it doesn't send any more information. After that, the font service runs in the background, utilizing only about 13,000 k.


Customer Service
Our customer service remains the same as always. So far, most people are installing and using the new fonts just fine. But if you are having a problem with the fonts, let us know and we'll help you get it sorted out. If we can't get it sorted out-- we'll refund your purchase. We don't want you to be without fonts that you purchased, so our response time is very quick. We can also set you up with a trial account so you can test out the new fonts before you purchase.

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us using the "Contact Us" form on the site and we'll be happy to address any other concerns you might have.

Thanks,
--Chuck

Chuck Davis, Founder
Letterhead Fonts
http://www.letterheadfonts.com

 

[Techman]

Thank you for the really nice explanation. I know it helps to understand what you need to do.

So now the question. Will I be forced to use your font manager? Or will I eventually get to use one that suits my needs?

The only time the installer needs internet access is when it is verifying your computer.

This is a good way to secure your stuff IMHO.

But, if I read that right it says any font I purchase will be tied to one machine. Is that the case? What if I have a station at home and a station at the office? Will I be able to use them or will I be stuck with just one work station?

A good example for concern is one specific software vendor here that has just about turned to vapor. That software is tied to one machine and those who use it are SOL.
Personally I had several softwares tied to one machine and got a load of unnecessary stress when I changed computers. It got to be such a pain emailing, waiting days for a response, getting the third degree as to why I changed computers that I gave up using those softwares. I pray this will not be the case. Not so much for my usage but for your sales.

 

[Chuck Davis]

Doesn't look like there will be anyway to protect the fonts and allow them to be managed by other font management programs. Therefore, we will create our own-- which of course will work with all of your installed fonts. I don't think the term "forced" to use our font management program is the accurate way to describe it. When all is said and done, you may actually prefer to use it since our font management application will be geared toward the professional artist rather than the casual user.

You are welcome to install the fonts on 3 computers. There is no limit to the number of installations, only the number of computers. So you could install the fonts on the same 3 computers hundreds of times (assuming the hard drives never change). If the hard drive is re-formatted or it is a new computer, that changes the serial number that the installer is connected with. That means that when you install again, you would then use another of your allotted new installs. When you reach 3 new installs, you can simply let us know and we will reset your account free of charge.

Our response time to situations like this is between 30 minutes and 2 hours (usually 30 minutes).

Hope that answers your questions. Let me know if you have any others.

Thanks,
--Chuck

Chuck Davis, Founder
Letterhead Fonts
http://www.letterheadfonts.com

 

[Techman]

Fair enuf. Thank you. The install deal doesn't sound all that bad after all. b
Why not use the nic card mac address... that almost always come included on the motherboard. That way. the hard drive could be changed all one wishes and never have to worry about the installer?

as for the other guy..

vWhat makes you say that? any designer worth his/her salt uses Illustrator on a daily basis or programs with similar capabilities, and turns text to outlines all the time, why would it not occur to them?

First of all, some of us do most of our own work and hardly ever needed to convert to curves. Just because someone else does it daily does not mean some other would.
Most of my work is done within using cocut and vinyl.. or printed on the encad. Or lately using paint.
If I converted fonts to curves once or twice a year then that was a lot. Usually when I sent a T-shirt job to a printer.

 

[bob]

You are welcome to install the fonts on 3 computers. There is no limit to the number of installations, only the number of computers. So you could install the fonts on the same 3 computers hundreds of times (assuming the hard drives never change). If the hard drive is re-formatted or it is a new computer, that changes the serial number that the installer is connected with. That means that when you install again, you would then use another of your allotted new installs. When you reach 3 new installs, you can simply let us know and we will reset your account free of charge.

Fine, except for a couple of things that tend to offend my admittedly overdeveloped sense of propriety...

You're writing files on MY machine...just where the hell are they? It's MY machine and those are MY files.

Unless it's been repealed there is a body of federal legislation to the effect that ones and zeros that I buy/lease/license/whatever may be installed on any number of my own machines under the assumption that I can only run one at a time. Which in fact is the case.

I do not permit my shop machine to communicate directly with the outside world in any way whatsoever. Period. Any online communication is handled via another machine. In the past I've simply loaded your install files on my shop machine manually after downloading them to this other machine.

In the larger sense, you're giving the finger to honest people in order to assuage what gives every appearance of paranoia. I've enjoyed doing business with you in the past but I doubt if the relationship will continue if this is the direction upon which you insist. I urge you to find another way.

 

[Chuck Davis]

Bob...

You bring up some interesting points to discuss. So I'm happy to have the opportunity to address them.

Where are the files?
Where the files are placed and the names of those files are inconsequential to the operation of the fonts. I don't know where CorelDraw places the files it uses on my system. Nor do I worry about it. I have more important things to do. I use the program and I'm happy. But assuming I was concerned about that sort of thing (and Corel wouldn't tell me)-- I wouldn't purchase CorelDraw. That's my right as a consumer.

What about DVD's?
Protecting the fonts is much like protecting DVD's from being copied. When I purchase a DVD, I understand beforehand that I will not be able to copy the DVD. I also understand that protection is not directed at me because I don't copy DVD's. So I don't take it personally. I just accept the fact that the studios must protect their work in order to continue making new DVD's.

Personally speaking
I'm sure you are a great guy and an honest customer. But do you also take it personally when they check you bags before you board a plane? ("Hey! This is an outrage! You're not trusting your customers!") Or how about when you leave a store and they check you receipt and bags? ("I'm never shopping here again! You're treating me like a criminal!") I would bet not. You understand that these checks are in place because there are people less honest than yourself.

In an imperfect world, allowances and compromises must be made. My job is to strike the balance-- making it easy to use the fonts, and yet still protect them. I'm sorry that you feel the way you do. Should you reconsider and decide to purchase from us again-- I welcome you back... we'll treat you right.

In the mean time, we'll keep crankin' 'em out.

Thanks,
--Chuck

Chuck Davis, Founder
Letterhead Fonts
http://www.letterheadfonts.com