Opinion on Summa F1612 (or any F-Series)?

[bigben]

The three you've mentioned are all on my shortlist with the exception of the Kongsberg being the X series. If you were to make a comment on it (Kongsberg) would it be good or bad?

I have the exact same list. I would be interested too to have feedback from SharpCut. I never operate or own a machine like this. So I'm not sure what I should look or ask. The three brand have good dealers in my area. But only ESKO sell and service direct. I don't know if it's a ''plus value''.

 

[SharpCut]

What's your frustrations with GoProduce?

More or less the lack of control I have with the files. GoProduce v2 solves some of my issues (like exporting job files), but I often need to create shapes/lines for random tasks, and it's impossible to create a cutfile from the ground up in GoProduce like other software. As well, I don't feel like I have as much control over the profiles. We don't have a router, so I don't know if any other options open up, but I'm missing things like down speed and other semi-minor features that would help spare a blade or two.

It does a lot of things right (ahead of the curve on the material database, easy setup, etc.), my complaints are exceptionally minor. If you'd like, I can put together a thorough comparison and list it all out here?

 

[balstestrat]

More or less the lack of control I have with the files. GoProduce v2 solves some of my issues (like exporting job files), but I often need to create shapes/lines for random tasks, and it's impossible to create a cutfile from the ground up in GoProduce like other software. As well, I don't feel like I have as much control over the profiles. We don't have a router, so I don't know if any other options open up, but I'm missing things like down speed and other semi-minor features that would help spare a blade or two.

It does a lot of things right (ahead of the curve on the material database, easy setup, etc.), my complaints are exceptionally minor. If you'd like, I can put together a thorough comparison and list it all out here?

That first one is pretty obvious, it's not an editor after all. Like RIP isn't for making vectors or something else. Maybe someone else can do it but I see why it's not an option.

Anyways, you should have down speed that you can set to your materials and tools no? Just edit the tool and I think you can save it to the material manager.
Or is that speed something else than what you are looking for?
Edit: I think I just understood, you would like tool downwards speed I guess.

 

[SharpCut]

The three you've mentioned are all on my shortlist with the exception of the Kongsberg being the X series. If you were to make a comment on it (Kongsberg) would it be good or bad?

I have the exact same list. I would be interested too to have feedback from SharpCut. I never operate or own a machine like this. So I'm not sure what I should look or ask. The three brand have good dealers in my area. But only ESKO sell and service direct. I don't know if it's a ''plus value''.

Oh hey I just learned multiquote. Neat!

Let me start by saying Kongsberg makes very good machines overall. They're precise, relatively robust, and have some great features. It's their software I can't support. The way the machine operates and the way cuts are setup through iCut (at least how we were trained) are obfuscated and complicated compared to comparable software. It is simultaneously more dense and less featured than other software. As an example, we were trained that we had to specify the regmark layer every time we import a file, meanwhile all our other software loads them automatically once you add the correct terms to "dictionary" or standardize the terms the software uses. It will take several more button clicks and more time to setup a file than any other file.
Their customer support is very difficult to work with, even down to purchasing bits, and often patronizes the team, has outright lied to save face, and/or simply don't know answers to our questions. Our technician had never even set up a grand format C-series, so I had to help with installation. I've installed a ton of machines, so that isn't the problem, but the training was lackluster because of it...Procurement has had a heck of a time performing simple exchanges.

I love both GoProduce and CutCenter 8/Optiscout, for different reasons... I don't honestly have any praise for iCut. Colex has the superior profile setup and customer support, Summa has the superior usability and longevity.

 

[SharpCut]

That first one is pretty obvious, it's not an editor after all. Like RIP isn't for making vectors or something else. Maybe someone else can do it but I see why it's not an option.

Anyways, you should have down speed that you can set to your materials and tools no? Just edit the tool and I think you can save it to the material manager.
Or is that speed something else than what you are looking for?
Edit: I think I just understood, you would like tool downwards speed I guess.

I'll have to go back through the settings. I sent out a wishlist to Summa about a year ago for features I'd love to see. Many of them got implemented in GoProduce. None of these are deal breakers, either. I still love the software - it's what I learned on. I'm just also a stickler for details and like having as many options as possible. Haha

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Did you buy that table from Summa, or is it some other brand that is less than eight bills?

I do have (2) of the Summa tables. But I didn't pay for them, my dealer threw them in with the deal. Now that I have the front extension, I just use them as regular work tables. haha. They weigh a ton and sucked to moved around. On the back side, I just use some material supports.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I'll have to go back through the settings. I sent out a wishlist to Summa about a year ago for features I'd love to see. Many of them got implemented in GoProduce. None of these are deal breakers, either. I still love the software - it's what I learned on. I'm just also a stickler for details and like having as many options as possible. Haha

I sent a bunch of new features to add in for various router functions. Still hoping they update soon and add them in!

 

[SharpCut]

I sent a bunch of new features to add in for various router functions. Still hoping they update soon and add them in!

Summa's tech team is pretty fast working. I'm actually very impressed with their update rollouts. Probably the best quality of working with them.

Our carriage board tool slot 2 went out for the second time since we purchased the machine and we couldn't ever identify why. Turns out, they learned there was an issue with the boards. When I asked for tech support, they just sent me an updated one that basically just came out to eliminate that specific issue.

They're great!

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Summa's tech team is pretty fast working. I'm actually very impressed with their update rollouts. Probably the best quality of working with them.

Our carriage board tool slot 2 went out for the second time since we purchased the machine and we couldn't ever identify why. Turns out, they learned there was an issue with the boards. When I asked for tech support, they just sent me an updated one that basically just came out to eliminate that specific issue.

They're great!

That's interesting. I had issues with blowing the board too. I think mine popped 3 of them. Has worked fine since I put in the last one.

I just wish GoProduce would update a little more often.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I also added in surge protectors on my panels as well. So that might have helped in my situtation.

 

[edcooleyar]

Recently bought a used F1612 and we are loving it! We do just about everything except cutting aluminum and dibond which gets cut with a cnc router. It has totally replaced the keencut substrate cutter.

I made a half-dozen, over-sized boxes today and it saved hours of manual work. The boxes fit perfectly and look much more professional.

We have a few dozen preset cut files for our acrylic and pvc boards on the hard drive. The operator grabs the substrate, sets the origin and it’s done in a few seconds.

Super easy

 

[HulkSmash]

Garbage machine, nothing but issues. Their support sucks, and I have books of summa being negligible about fixing my lemon

 

[HulkSmash]

Hi All,

The F1612 is fairly easy to move around the shop and even to a new shop if you wanted to. A palette jack should be all you need to move it around your shop but if you need to move it from one location to another then you may also need a forklift. I have repacking instructions that I can email you if you would like and those walk you through how to properly secure the unit in the crate as well as how to secure the gantry for movement as well. Keep in mind that there are several calibrations that you will need to run after the machine has been moved from one location to another, like the table profiling for example. If the machine is under warranty and you are moving it from your existing shop to a new location, it would probably be most prudent to have a Summa trained technician assist with the move to avoid any potential damage to the equipment that may not be covered under warranty.

Did you already purchase this equipment or are you in the process of comparing distributors and pricing still? We are long time Summa guys(we used to own and operate Summa until 2017 so we know the Summa flatbeds well) and I would be happy to provide pricing for the F1612 and answer any other questions that you might have about the equipment if that would be helpful.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

Phil, you should tell them about all the problems I've had with your f1612, and how summa refuses to cover my warranties, unless i "cage fight" them through emails for months. ridiculous company, and everyone should avoid summa at all lengths.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Garbage machine, nothing but issues. Their support sucks, and I have books of summa being negligible about fixing my lemon

You definitely got shafted on yours! I don't get how I have had great luck on mine and yours is crap?!

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Recently bought a used F1612 and we are loving it! We do just about everything except cutting aluminum and dibond which gets cut with a cnc router. It has totally replaced the keencut substrate cutter.

I made a half-dozen, over-sized boxes today and it saved hours of manual work. The boxes fit perfectly and look much more professional.

We have a few dozen preset cut files for our acrylic and pvc boards on the hard drive. The operator grabs the substrate, sets the origin and it’s done in a few seconds.

Super easy

I cut ACM is mine and it works great!

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Phil, you should tell them about all the problems I've had with your f1612, and how summa refuses to cover my warranties, unless i "cage fight" them through emails for months. ridiculous company, and everyone should avoid summa at all lengths.

Whats wrong with your unit, if you don't mind me asking. I know you were struggling with it but I thought a lot got resolved?

 

[HulkSmash]

Whats wrong with your unit, if you don't mind me asking. I know you were struggling with it but I thought a lot got resolved?

Sure.

Where to start.. here's a very compressed version.

From Day 1 we've had issues. The constant issue that we OR SUMMA has ever figured out is the constant device read failure.. and i mean constant. IT just cancels cuts. So we have to unroll an entire roll, and re roll it the other direction so it can start over from the back side, and if it happens twice on the same roll, we have to hand cut it.. because there are no scan marks.

Within 3 months our router was routing, it malfunctioned, shot into our table, destroyed out table and belt, and of course the router itself. They blamed me, refused warranty, and then finally decided it wasn't my fault, came out and fixed the belt and didn't fix the table which now had an entire logo carved into it. When they came out, they also replaced the belt - however it was done incorrectly, constantly snapped our blades from it having a hump at the seam. So fast forward another 6 months they came out to fix the belt again, correctly this time.

A few weeks later our module stopped working and couldn't figure out why. Come to find out the connection was missing some pins, and was discolored. So they said i had forced the module into the socket breaking the connection. I said no that didn't happen. They sent out another module, and it still didn't work. They were beyond baffled. Finally after a month or two of going back and forward - they had me remove the top and check the board. It was completely shattered (board break #1) So after months of blaming me, they realized it was the board that had a short. FINALLY they sent a new board, and walked me though how to replace it. This was after almost a 4 months of emails and calls of them blaming me.

Now they came out for a 4th time to fix all my other issues from device read failure, skipping cuts, and finally replace my destroyed table they never did the first time around. The tech guy showed up, and forgot half of the table, so he was there 4 days and spent 2 waiting on shipping. He didn't notice he left it until he took the entire thing apart, so we couldn't address the other issues. Finally on the last day he got it installed, and tried to figure out the other issues in a few hrs. The problems didn't show up as they are random and they couldn't address them. So i emailed them and called them explaining im still having issues and they essentially said they will no longer be helping, and we're essentially cancelling my warranty a few months early.

Fast forward today, another blown board. They won't fix it, they won't replace it. They have replaced others but not mine. This is the Summa.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Sure.

Where to start.. here's a very compressed version.

From Day 1 we've had issues. The constant issue that we OR SUMMA has ever figured out is the constant device read failure.. and i mean constant. IT just cancels cuts. So we have to unroll an entire roll, and re roll it the other direction so it can start over from the back side, and if it happens twice on the same roll, we have to hand cut it.. because there are no scan marks.

Within 3 months our router was routing, it malfunctioned, shot into our table, destroyed out table and belt, and of course the router itself. They blamed me, refused warranty, and then finally decided it wasn't my fault, came out and fixed the belt and didn't fix the table which now had an entire logo carved into it. When they came out, they also replaced the belt - however it was done incorrectly, constantly snapped our blades from it having a hump at the seam. So fast forward another 6 months they came out to fix the belt again, correctly this time.

A few weeks later our module stopped working and couldn't figure out why. Come to find out the connection was missing some pins, and was discolored. So they said i had forced the module into the socket breaking the connection. I said no that didn't happen. They sent out another module, and it still didn't work. They were beyond baffled. Finally after a month or two of going back and forward - they had me remove the top and check the board. It was completely shattered (board break #1) So after months of blaming me, they realized it was the board that had a short. FINALLY they sent a new board, and walked me though how to replace it. This was after almost a 4 months of emails and calls of them blaming me.

Now they came out for a 4th time to fix all my other issues from device read failure, skipping cuts, and finally replace my destroyed table they never did the first time around. The tech guy showed up, and forgot half of the table, so he was there 4 days and spent 2 waiting on shipping. He didn't notice he left it until he took the entire thing apart, so we couldn't address the other issues. Finally on the last day he got it installed, and tried to figure out the other issues in a few hrs. The problems didn't show up as they are random and they couldn't address them. So i emailed them and called them explaining im still having issues and they essentially said they will no longer be helping, and we're essentially cancelling my warranty a few months early.

Fast forward today, another blown board. They won't fix it, they won't replace it. They have replaced others but not mine. This is the Summa.

Damn, that sucks!

We had a similar experience with our Roland printer, it took a strongly worded letter from our lawyer but they finally did the right thing, I suggest you do the same.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Sure.

Where to start.. here's a very compressed version.

From Day 1 we've had issues. The constant issue that we OR SUMMA has ever figured out is the constant device read failure.. and i mean constant. IT just cancels cuts. So we have to unroll an entire roll, and re roll it the other direction so it can start over from the back side, and if it happens twice on the same roll, we have to hand cut it.. because there are no scan marks.

Within 3 months our router was routing, it malfunctioned, shot into our table, destroyed out table and belt, and of course the router itself. They blamed me, refused warranty, and then finally decided it wasn't my fault, came out and fixed the belt and didn't fix the table which now had an entire logo carved into it. When they came out, they also replaced the belt - however it was done incorrectly, constantly snapped our blades from it having a hump at the seam. So fast forward another 6 months they came out to fix the belt again, correctly this time.

A few weeks later our module stopped working and couldn't figure out why. Come to find out the connection was missing some pins, and was discolored. So they said i had forced the module into the socket breaking the connection. I said no that didn't happen. They sent out another module, and it still didn't work. They were beyond baffled. Finally after a month or two of going back and forward - they had me remove the top and check the board. It was completely shattered (board break #1) So after months of blaming me, they realized it was the board that had a short. FINALLY they sent a new board, and walked me though how to replace it. This was after almost a 4 months of emails and calls of them blaming me.

Now they came out for a 4th time to fix all my other issues from device read failure, skipping cuts, and finally replace my destroyed table they never did the first time around. The tech guy showed up, and forgot half of the table, so he was there 4 days and spent 2 waiting on shipping. He didn't notice he left it until he took the entire thing apart, so we couldn't address the other issues. Finally on the last day he got it installed, and tried to figure out the other issues in a few hrs. The problems didn't show up as they are random and they couldn't address them. So i emailed them and called them explaining im still having issues and they essentially said they will no longer be helping, and we're essentially cancelling my warranty a few months early.

Fast forward today, another blown board. They won't fix it, they won't replace it. They have replaced others but not mine. This is the Summa.

Wow, when we talked you were mentioning problems... I didn't realize it got to this extent. Is your vendor fighting for you? We had 22 months of issues with HP on our FB750 and they essentially rebuilt it twice and ended up doing the same thing to us which was wiping their hands of it. We have really stopped buying HP equipment from that point, but the grass isn't always greener and we have really learned to partner with good Vendors that are willing to be Pitbulls on your behalf. Grimco wasn't one of them for us which has caused us to find other vendors too.

Are you going to be looking for another machine?

 

[CMY_K?]

Phil, you should tell them about all the problems I've had with your f1612, and how summa refuses to cover my warranties, unless i "cage fight" them through emails for months. ridiculous company, and everyone should avoid summa at all lengths.

HulkSmash, are you a Dealer, and Phil was your customer in this scenario? If so, how long ago was this machine purchased? It seems that more recent purchasers have been happy, so I'm wondering if a lot of these computer issues were rectified with the F1612v3. Also, are you dealing directly with Summa for your service work? ****UPDATE**** I see that Phil is your sales rep from Airmark, and you are the end user. Sorry to hear about all of your issues!