• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Oracal fans: help me convert

B

Bosh

New Member
Background: 3M 180 prints great but has adhesive problems, Avery 1005 installs great but won't print consistently. . .

So maybe it's time to try Oracal. I've read the technical specs and such, but am interested in experienced opinions. I'm unclear about the precise differences between Oracal 3751 and 3951. I gather 3751 is "low initial tac". Great, but why is it .5 mil thicker? What's the practical difference? Is one more conformable, or better in some way? What do Oracal users prefer?

Also- Oragard 293 sounds fun- 1 mil cast laminate, thin conformable. I love Avery 1460, and 3m doesn't do anything comparable. Does anyone use this? Downside?

The only Oracal I've used in years was for a color change, no print wraps. But I gather it has a following, and I'm frustrated enough with 3M and Avery to be interested.

Any guidance greatly appreciated.
 
S

SignProPlus-Alex

New Member
I've been using Oracal 3751 for trailers and box tracks and 3951 for everything else. You have to get used to it. It is kinda prepositional but adhesive is very aggressive. It likes to be post heat treated in any recess areas at 210 F.
If you are printing with latex do not use torch for too long on the same spot. It will melt ink between film and laminate.
 
GAC05

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
I think material reassignment therapy is illegal in more than 10 states now....

What issues are you having with 3M adhesive? I use a lot of IJ180 and lately have had some issues with print quality.

wayne k
guam usa
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
Probably the same 3M adhesive issues as another recent post...it's become a lot more aggressive/tacky/grabby even on non-printed areas.
 
P

player

New Member
SignProPlus-Alex said:
I've been using Oracal 3751 for trailers and box tracks and 3951 for everything else. You have to get used to it. It is kinda prepositional but adhesive is very aggressive. It likes to be post heat treated in any recess areas at 210 F.
If you are printing with latex do not use torch for too long on the same spot. It will melt ink between film and laminate.
Click to expand...

I am struggling with 3751 RA on curved trucks. Is there a long life cast vinyl that is easier to use? The 3751 fights me the whole job...
 
strypguy

strypguy

New Member
I'm assuming you're using V3.
Go back to V1 and you won't have that problem.
Click to expand...

+1. I love certain Oracal products but I still go back to 3M IJ 180 V1 for my vehicle graphics, lettering, and wraps. John
 
S

SignLights

New Member
OraJet

3951RA with 293 laminate or 290GF for optically clear. 3951 handles really well, conforming and heating well. The 3751 is a mid-grade cast.
 
P

player

New Member
SignLights said:
3951RA with 293 laminate or 290GF for optically clear. 3951 handles really well, conforming and heating well. The 3751 is a mid-grade cast.
Click to expand...

I understand the 3751 is not mid grade, but rather high grade like 3951 with a less aggressive adhesive.
 
B

Bosh

New Member
Thanks for the input.

Oracal doesn't seem to directly present 3751 as "mid-grade" or in any way inferior to 3951, but I notice it's a bit cheaper- ironically, that's a turn-off. 293 laminate (1-mil) sounds like a great idea, but Oracal's literature mostly presents it as a good option for counterbalancing the non-conformabilty of their calendered "wrap" materials (a terrible concept).

At the risk of derailing my own thread, my issue with the 3m 180 adhesive is largely cosmetic. Simple repositioning or working around compound curves often leaves very unsightly blemishes under the film, as though the adhesive is is smeared and scarred. If you pull the film up, sure enough you can see that the glue is damaged. This became an issue precisely when the adhesive changed color about a year ago (remember what it used to look like? Part of 3M training was actually being able to differentiate products by the color/pattern of the glue), but I've been assured it is unrelated. It still works "fine", for vans, trucks, and partials, but bumpers, mirrors, tricky 1/4 panels or hoods tend to look very blemished and beat-up, even with textbook technique.

I'm willing to work with less user-friendly film in exchange for a cleaner finish. (Avery had the best of both worlds, but can't seem to ship uncontaminated rolls, which breaks my wrap-heart).
 
T

tim99

New Member
Never tried 3M Print vinyls. But i always had problems with 3M vinyl for some reason. In any case i used the 3951RA, 3751 and the 3551, with matching laminates. I must say the adhesive is very aggressive once set on the cast and a little mild on there calendar. Rapid Air works like its supposed to. and the cast materials conform to any i put them up against so far. Only big complaint I got is on the rare occasion the laminate doesn't stick to well to the vinyl when doing a direct from printer to laminator job (no "out gas" time).


On a side note I am printing on a Solvent printer.
 
S

SignLights

New Member
player said:
I understand the 3751 is not mid grade, but rather high grade like 3951 with a less aggressive adhesive.
Click to expand...

Hi! You are correct, Orafol doesn't promote any Cast product as mid-grade, that was my own assessment, sorry I should have clarified. If I'm going to use a wrapping cast, my thought is go with the 3951GRA, spend a little extra for the best material with the best adhesive. And the 293 laminate makes it really easy to stretch and curve and make it do whatever I want, and it ends up looking like a coat of paint, which is my preference. Good luck whatever you decide, I was just sharing my experiences, you will find your way, just remember to seal any open edges with any product that has air-release/rapid air, as the adhesive is patterned and will leave edges not completely sealed down on any brand.
 
P

player

New Member
SignLights said:
Hi! You are correct, Orafol doesn't promote any Cast product as mid-grade, that was my own assessment, sorry I should have clarified. If I'm going to use a wrapping cast, my thought is go with the 3951GRA, spend a little extra for the best material with the best adhesive. And the 293 laminate makes it really easy to stretch and curve and make it do whatever I want, and it ends up looking like a coat of paint, which is my preference. Good luck whatever you decide, I was just sharing my experiences, you will find your way, just remember to seal any open edges with any product that has air-release/rapid air, as the adhesive is patterned and will leave edges not completely sealed down on any brand.
Click to expand...

OK so to clarify, I read that 3571 is the same as 3951, but with s slightly less aggressive adhesive.
 
S

Stu Friesen

New Member
I also am looking to try a different brand other than 3M. I have been experiencing the aggressive adhesive issues with several rolls of 3M like the others have mentioned here. 3M rep sent me a "revised formula" roll after I complained and there are still the same issues. I have never tried any other wrap material so any input on other brands would be valuable.
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
Stu Friesen said:
I also am looking to try a different brand other than 3M. I have been experiencing the aggressive adhesive issues with several rolls of 3M like the others have mentioned here. 3M rep sent me a "revised formula" roll after I complained and there are still the same issues. I have never tried any other wrap material so any input on other brands would be valuable.
Click to expand...

In my experience, AVERY has Hands Down, the least aggressive adhesive.
That is also it's weakness though if not properly installed.
Try it. The backing liner isn't covered with the thick waxy coating that 3M is though...so it tears easier.
 
D

Desert_Signs

New Member
Kentucky Wraps said:
In my experience, AVERY has Hands Down, the least aggressive adhesive.
That is also it's weakness though if not properly installed.
Try it. The backing liner isn't covered with the thick waxy coating that 3M is though...so it tears easier.
Click to expand...

I've pretty much made the switch from IJ180 to MPI1005. I was just fighting with the 3m too much. Avery lays down SO much nicer. It must cut 20% off the time needed to complete a wrap. 1080 lays very similar to the Avery, so I KNOW it's something with the adhesive 3m has changed. At first I thought it was just me not outgassing enough, but even after waiting 4 days I had the same issues.

The other day, I wrapped a motorcycle with camowraps from Fellers, which is printed on 1j180cv3. It was just as 'tacky' as what comes off my printer, so I'm guessing it's not just me. I was so pissed at that material. Took WAY longer than it should have, just fighting with the material. Slidability/repositionable MY A&&.
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
Desert_Signs said:
I've pretty much made the switch from IJ180 to MPI1005. I was just fighting with the 3m too much. Avery lays down SO much nicer. It must cut 20% off the time needed to complete a wrap. 1080 lays very similar to the Avery, so I KNOW it's something with the adhesive 3m has changed. At first I thought it was just me not outgassing enough, but even after waiting 4 days I had the same issues.

The other day, I wrapped a motorcycle with camowraps from Fellers, which is printed on 1j180cv3. It was just as 'tacky' as what comes off my printer, so I'm guessing it's not just me. I was so pissed at that material. Took WAY longer than it should have, just fighting with the material. Slidability/repositionable MY A&&.
Click to expand...

Not to be captain obvious but just using un-printed white 3M180Cv3 with lam is the best way to find out that it's DEFINITELY the adhesive and not an out-gassing issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top