Oraguard 210 = UV burn

[TXFB.INS]

We are located in central Texas and have recently been seeing an issue with Oraguard 210 Overlaminates having UV Burn (turning brown) in fairly short amount of time.
2 years and less is what we are seeing as the current timeframe before the UV Burn becomes noticeable, unlaminated signs are getting a better lifespan for outdoor applications.

What are others using in the south for a calendered overlaminate that has a good UV protection?

 

[Jester1167]

Horizontal, vertical or both applications?

Horizontal applications in southern climates take a UV beating.

 

[TXFB.INS]

vertical application, granted the S and W facing signs are showing the burn faster but even the N and E signs are showing the burn.

Regardless of the ink coverage the amount of burn is about the same timeframe on happening.

 

[Signed Out]

vertical application, granted the S and W facing signs are showing the burn faster but even the N and E signs are showing the burn.

Regardless of the ink coverage the amount of burn is about the same timeframe on happening.

This is very unsettling as we have a lot of 210 laminated signs out there. Have you spoke with oracal about this? We haven't noticed any "burn" in upstate NY.

 

[T_K]

When I was working in Dallas, we used the 210 matte and gloss laminates all the time. During that time (about 3 years), I never saw any issues with the UV burn you've described.
The calendered laminates always shrunk up and got dirt lines around the edges, but that was the worst of it.

The company I'm at now is almost exclusively running cast vinyl & laminate, so I can't give any comparisons.

Maybe you're area of Texas gets even worse sun than DFW?

 

[Z SIGNS]

That's a cheap laminate.
What were you expecting ?

 

[TXFB.INS]

This is very unsettling as we have a lot of 210 laminated signs out there. Have you spoke with oracal about this? We haven't noticed any "burn" in upstate NY.

No, have not spoke with Oracal about this. And, after the issues we just had with 3751 RA about having contamination while printing and the lack of help from Oracal on that, I highly doubt the calendared material will get any more help.

it is an issue with the south more than the north, specifically, we (southern locations) fall into what they call "Zone 2" so we were already expecting a lower life span.
http://www.orafol.com/tl_files/content/downloads/warrantydocuments/Americas-GP/general-warranty.pdf

When I was working in Dallas, we used the 210 matte and gloss laminates all the time. During that time (about 3 years), I never saw any issues with the UV burn you've described.
The calendered laminates always shrunk up and got dirt lines around the edges, but that was the worst of it.

The company I'm at now is almost exclusively running cast vinyl & laminate, so I can't give any comparisons.

Maybe you're area of Texas gets even worse sun than DFW?

Yes, we do get more sun than DFW we are closer to the Austin area and yes we see the shrinking that occurs with all calendared material.

That's a cheap laminate.
What were you expecting ?

I was expecting the lamination to do as listed, that is last 3 years per the warranty sheet showing above. we have been using Oracal exclusively for over 6 years and until recently have been very happy with the products. We still prefer their plotter vinyl, but the printed material has been lacking here lately

well if you had read the initial post I was asking what calendered overlaminate others are using, especially in the south since the UV is more of an issue for us.

 

[eahicks]

That's a cheap laminate.
What were you expecting ?

Doesn't matter if it's cheap....it's supposed to last 2 years and provide UV Protection, not burn outdoors.
We use tons of this, have for years.... Not good to hear it's failing suddenly.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Off the wall question, but are these dry installs or wet installs?

 

[TXFB.INS]

Off the wall question, but are these dry installs or wet installs?

The lamination was installed dry using a Drytac laminator

vinyl with lamination was applied to the substrate usually with a big squeegee or by hand squeegee, depending on the graphic size

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Okay, the reason I asked is because our Orafol sales rep had mentioned that he was aware of a problem with this UV burning and it would seem that wet installation of the laminated media was the culprit. That makes no sense to me, but it's information I figured I could relay to you, for what it's worth.

 

[Z SIGNS]

I'll repeat myself...It's a cheap laminate and this is what happens when you use cheap materials.

I am perplexed by these kind of posts
"I used cheap and it's not working"

Here is a thought.
Why not separate yourself from everyone else.
Use the best materials available,charge for it,make more money and justify your prices because your signs are a better quality than the guy around the corner.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

No, have not spoke with Oracal about this. And, after the issues we just had with 3751 RA about having contamination while printing and the lack of help from Oracal on that, I highly doubt the calendared material will get any more help.

it is an issue with the south more than the north, specifically, we (southern locations) fall into what they call "Zone 2" so we were already expecting a lower life span.

Anyone north of the equator will have issues with south facing. Anyone south of the equator will have issues with North facing. The same reason they point your solar panels in that direction. Because you get more light.

 

[ORAFOL Americas]

We're here to help

We are located in central Texas and have recently been seeing an issue with Oraguard 210 Overlaminates having UV Burn (turning brown) in fairly short amount of time.
2 years and less is what we are seeing as the current timeframe before the UV Burn becomes noticeable, unlaminated signs are getting a better lifespan for outdoor applications.

What are others using in the south for a calendered overlaminate that has a good UV protection?

Sorry to hear you're having trouble. Please call Tim Wright, one of our product support specialists, at 888-672-2251. He can help you work through the issue and determine the cause.

 

[T_K]

Off the wall question, but are these dry installs or wet installs?

Why would a dry or wet install have any effect on this? I don't see the connection.

 

[Gino]

I'll repeat myself...It's a cheap laminate and this is what happens when you use cheap materials.

I am perplexed by these kind of posts
"I used cheap and it's not working"

Here is a thought.
Why not separate yourself from everyone else.
Use the best materials available,charge for it,make more money and justify your prices because your signs are a better quality than the guy around the corner.

What we've got here…is failure to communicate. :ROFLMAO:

 

[Jester1167]

Why would a dry or wet install have any effect on this? I don't see the connection.

There is a known issue with some brands of reflective vinyl and wet installations. They end up having a black mold look. I think people were thinking there might be a connection between that and your problem.

 

[Baz]

I'll repeat myself...It's a cheap laminate and this is what happens when you use cheap materials.

I am perplexed by these kind of posts
"I used cheap and it's not working"

Here is a thought.
Why not separate yourself from everyone else.
Use the best materials available,charge for it,make more money and justify your prices because your signs are a better quality than the guy around the corner.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I have been using Oracal 3651 and 210 lam for many years for standard flat stock signs.
Signs that i did many years ago are starting to be taken down for updated branding for my customers and those signs still look good.

210 lam is not a cheap laminate. It is a quality calendared product IMO.
It's minimum exterior life is 4 years.

I do use a cold laminator though, no liquid.
Take it from someone who has been a steady user.

 

[Z SIGNS]

You don't know what you are talking about.

I have been using Oracal 3651 and 210 lam for many years for standard flat stock signs.
Signs that i did many years ago are starting to be taken down for updated branding for my customers and those signs still look good.

210 lam is not a cheap laminate. It is a quality calendared product IMO.
It's minimum exterior life is 4 years.

I do use a cold laminator though, no liquid.
Take it from someone who has been a steady user.

Well I guess you could call me old school because using anything less than the best product available to offer my customers I call "cheap"

 

[petesign]

Well I guess you could call me old school because using anything less than the best product available to offer my customers I call "cheap"

Oh brother... not every sign you put out there needs to be cast vinyl. A product should last as long as the manufacturer says it will - that's the issue. I have signs made with cast vinyl out there that look great after 6 years... and those customers willingly paid for the premium materials. I have other signs out there that are turning brown after 4 or 5 years... and you know what? That's what their budget allowed. It's not about me being cheap, its about me selling the product my clients ask for. get off your high horse.