Orajet cal getting out of hand $$$

[Colin]

I've been happy using the Orajet 3651 for some time now, but due to the sliding Canadian dollar, a 54" roll is now about $300.00, and this is just calendared material! Same goes for the 210 Lam, about $300/roll.

As many competitors are likely opting for the cheaper $100.00/roll "house brand" offerings from the various suppliers, it's getting difficult justifying the 3x price difference. Not only do I not feel like mentioning this to every customer I quote to, but I imagine it would fall on deaf ears anyway. They'd likely be skeptical of an unprovable claim.

I have used the $100.00 econo media for really short-term jobs, but am nervous about using it for jobs that extend into the 4-5 year range.

So has anyone made the switch to the cheaper stuff for all of their non-cast work, and if so, how is that working out?

 

[Colin]

Sorry to answer your questions with another question - but where are you ordering from that you're paying that much for those materials?

Seems to be standard right now after a recent jump in price. I got that price from Grimco (who is the new owner of the old "Proveer"), and AllGraphicSupplies.

 

[SameDay Signs]

I'm not sure if they ship to Canada or not but Instant One Media is a great alternative vinyl that is also air release. We've personally used tons of it and have zero problems. at $129 a roll i believe plus whatever shipping would run you can't beat the price or quality in my opinion.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Sorry to answer your questions with another question - but where are you ordering from that you're paying that much for those materials?

I can't speak for Colin, but we pay around $270/roll for 3651, and the 210 lam is around $290, both from Grimco (or is that proveer, or east west I can't keep track any more)

But to answer your question Colin, we have had good luck with the Arlon brand, they are priced lower than oracal, but I have found the quality to be as good or better. The 3651 equivilant is DPF4500GT, Acme Sign Supplies sells it out West.

Hope this helps

 

[CanuckSigns]

I'm not sure if they ship to Canada or not but Instant One Media is a great alternative vinyl that is also air release. We've personally used tons of it and have zero problems. at $129 a roll i believe plus whatever shipping would run you can't beat the price or quality in my opinion.

They don't ship to Canada, I've asked

 

[Baz]

I would not replace 3651 grade vinyl with a house brand econo vinyl. Not for jobs that are supposed to last more than two years.

I've been increasing my prices in relation to recent material price increases.

So far i haven't noticed a change with my customer's responses.
It doesn't matter what i charge .. It's always "expensive".

 

[CanuckSigns]

Also, we have streamlined our vinyl, we only carry 3 different vinyls:

Avery 1005EZRS for anything calling for a 2 mil wrap film
Arlon DPF4500GT for Medium term flat signage
Proveer's house brand vinyl for anything that needs to last no more than 6 months

I have used the $100/roll stuff from All Graphics and it's garbage, I wouldn't even use it for Golf signs!

 

[Vinyldog]

I commonly use "house brands". I think many of them are made by General Formulations. The thinner paper backing sometimes causes some problems for me. My favorite calendared lam is still O.210. It’s consistent, easy to work with and has a good gloss. You might try IJ35 instead of O.3651.
But, how are you able to buy Oracal from Grimco?

 

[Baz]

I also only stock 3 grades of printing vinyl.

Avery MPI1005
Oracal 3651
Proveer's/Grimco's Tru Stock econo vinyl with the permanent grey solvent adhesive. (Really good for short term signs - Works great with my Roland)

Anything else i order in small quantities (translucent or perforated)

 

[Colin]

I commonly use "house brands". I think many of them are made by General Formulations. The thinner paper backing sometimes causes some problems for me. My favorite calendared lam is still O.210. It’s consistent, easy to work with and has a good gloss. You might try IJ35 instead of O.3651.
But, how are you able to buy Oracal from Grimco?

Grimco in Canada recently acquired Proveer, so maybe that's why.

https://www.grimco.ca/Grimco/userHome.action

 

[Colin]

I would not replace 3651 grade vinyl with a house brand econo vinyl. Not for jobs that are supposed to last more than two years.

Yes, this is my concern with the $99.00 products that are also available locally.



@ SameDay Signs: Do you not feel that the "Instant One Media" product is equivalent to the other $99.00-a-roll Chinese products?

 

[CanuckSigns]

I commonly use "house brands". I think many of them are made by General Formulations. The thinner paper backing sometimes causes some problems for me. My favorite calendared lam is still O.210. It’s consistent, easy to work with and has a good gloss. You might try IJ35 instead of O.3651.
But, how are you able to buy Oracal from Grimco?

A little birdie told me that the Tru-Stock brand is made by Avery, which seems to be true as the backer paper is very similar (it's nice and thick)

 

[Colin]

For those Canadians also thinking about the Instant One Media, I just received this reply by email regarding shipping:

"The problem is the shipping will pretty much negate the savings. It would cost $95 for each roll of vinyl & $75 for the lam. And transit time is 6 days. However, if this price will work, I’ll be more than happy to get it out to you. We do have a couple of Canadian customers who have an address in the states they have us ship it to, then on their next trip in, they just bring it over."


I just spoke with my local supplier and the bundled price for the Orajet 3651 is around the $250.00 mark, so I've ordered more of that. The $300.00 numbers I originally quoted on this thread was for single rolls.

I really like the printed grid pattern on the back of the Orajet product - very handy, and also feel more confident in using it for the 4-5 year applications, so will stick with it I guess.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Vinyldog]

My issue with 4560GTX is the black adhesive. It really shows after it shrinks, which it will because it's calendared, and it's supposed to be clean removable.Maybe on new paint, but not the old oxidized box truck I once did removal on. Granted it was awhile back.

 

[fresh]

Also, we have streamlined our vinyl, we only carry 3 different vinyls:

Avery 1005EZRS for anything calling for a 2 mil wrap film
Arlon DPF4500GT for Medium term flat signage
Proveer's house brand vinyl for anything that needs to last no more than 6 months

I have used the $100/roll stuff from All Graphics and it's garbage, I wouldn't even use it for Golf signs!

We are in the same boat, and use the same Avery 1005 and Arlon 4500GT... but we like using Avery MPI 2923 for short term / indoor signage. We've found the ease of installing with air-release outweighs the slightly added cost. We also really like using Arlon 3420 laminate.

 

[reQ]

$501 for 3651 combo. Or $250 for vinyl & $270 for lam if bough separate

i am located in Saskatchewan

 

[CanuckSigns]

My issue with 4560GTX is the black adhesive. It really shows after it shrinks, which it will because it's calendared, and it's supposed to be clean removable.Maybe on new paint, but not the old oxidized box truck I once did removal on. Granted it was awhile back.

Black adhesive? Mine is a dark grey (darker than oracal anyway)

I wouldn't use it on a vehicle anyway, the adhesive is too agressive, for me box trucks get quoted in a true 2 mil wrap film and Automark, I explain the differences and advantages of both, I've never had a client pick the 2 mil material. But the AutoMark is slowly creeping up in price to a lower priced wrap film like Arlon or Hexis, so the reason to use it are slowly disappearing.

 

[SameDay Signs]

I myself have found it very comparable to the 3651 just with air release. As I've mentioned I've used it many times with zero complaints. I have bought some really cheap stuff that has been garbage but as far as Instant One goes I've got nothing but positives to speak of it. I actually got a sample of there cast in as well which is only $275 a roll I believe and it worked wonders too. I used to buy alot of oracal and as mentioned if I can get a product that for me works the same if not better (being air release) for alot less without worrying about issues I'm gonna go with it.

Yes, this is my concern with the $99.00 products that are also available locally.



@ SameDay Signs: Do you not feel that the "Instant One Media" product is equivalent to the other $99.00-a-roll Chinese products?

 

[signguy54]

in my opinion - this is the right answer

I'm not sure if they ship to Canada or not but Instant One Media is a great alternative vinyl that is also air release. We've personally used tons of it and have zero problems. at $129 a roll i believe plus whatever shipping would run you can't beat the price or quality in my opinion.

love their products

editops - wasn't aware of the shipping problem.

 

[reQ]

Was thinking of importing pallet of vinyl/lam from instant one media (which will cut shipping cost) Was wondering if any shops in canada would be interested in buying some media? Alberta/Manitoba? I think pallet is 35 rolls, but need to double check

 

[Vinyldog]

Black adhesive? Mine is a dark grey (darker than oracal anyway)

I wouldn't use it on a vehicle anyway, the adhesive is too agressive, for me box trucks get quoted in a true 2 mil wrap film and Automark, I explain the differences and advantages of both, I've never had a client pick the 2 mil material. But the AutoMark is slowly creeping up in price to a lower priced wrap film like Arlon or Hexis, so the reason to use it are slowly disappearing.

I used the 4560 because I knew the truck would be in service for less than three years and it was advertised to remove clean within that period. It did not. "Aggressive" is a good description for that light black adhesive.

I do like the GF Automark 231, although I use their Gloss lam when a customer is looking for a Satin / Luster finish. If they are looking for a slick finish I still like the 210 if I can't justify 3M 8518.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Was thinking of importing pallet of vinyl/lam from instant one media (which will cut shipping cost) Was wondering if any shops in canada would be interested in buying some media? Alberta/Manitoba? I think pallet is 35 rolls, but need to double check

I would be interested in a few rolls