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Outside Sign Materials Help

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by jviola, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

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    that will happen with this sign. if you want to make signs by hand in the future, you body of work will look horrid and that won't do you ny favors. if this is a one off and you never plan on ever doing another sign, go for it. it won't look as nice as a sign done by someone who knows materials and it won't hold up very well but if it doesn't hurt your future and this guy is OK with this, do it. I assume that whatever you do as an artist will look better than what this guy would do on his own. you did ask about materials and now have a good list for any future work. as far as the price, did he pay for the MDO and the paint? is the $150 to $200 the charge for your time? if so, it isn't as bad as it sounds. if you bught anything, that is way too low.

    post it when you finish so we can see it
     
  2. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

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    I could print you a 4x8 vinyl you can just apply over the MDO for $200...
     
  3. signcrafters london

    signcrafters london Very Active Member

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    Please post photos of the finished product.
     
  4. jviola

    jviola Member

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    I'm not upset, I only made a comment towards one person that flat out called me an idiot. I'm a perfectionist and if I was buying all the materials, I would get every single thing you all have told me. I got the impression that he was trying to save money. I will let him know I should probably not use the flat exterior acrylic water based paint. I only painted white on both boards at this point, haven't done anything else yet. GINO - I appreciate all the help, but calling someone a fool and lazy is pretty out of line. I'm neither. The guy just told me two days ago he wanted it done and needs it by Friday. I have done vinyl lettering in the past and it would be so easy, I know. I don't think he wants to pay the amount for the vinyl lettering when he can buy a gallon of black and red for much less. I think it's being interpreted wrong....I WOULD LOVE TO do it with all the BEST stuff. I mentioned to him about better quality, etc. He said, it's not that big of a deal...blah blah.
    Again, I am happy and appreciate everything from all of you, this is why I asked, because I don't do this type of work. So at this point...I have 2 MDO 4 X 8 signs that he bought, they were preprimed. All I did yesterday is paint a flat exterior white on both. So I need to tell him to take the Black and Red back to the store and return it and buy...

    Gloss Lettering Enamel paint or Semi Gloss Lettering Enamel?

    I am not purchasing anything, and I don't think he's going to buy a $100 Quil brush for me. I'm not sure what type of brush to use as it is, I have some regular paint brushes that I'm sure are not really what I should be using. What do I need to buy to thin the paint for lettering to make it go on smoother when painting, if need be?

    Gimme a break guys..take it easy, I'm trying here. LOL. I really do appreciate it and will be taking all advice before I paint another thing on this job. Consider me grasshopper as of now. ;-)
     
  5. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    best way is gloss enamel background, with gloss lettering enamel for the lettering...

    BUT on a tight deadline, and he's telling you 'no big deal', I would just do it, and let him know that he didnt get the right stuff...
     
  6. jviola

    jviola Member

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    JHILLDESIGNS - At this point I already painted flat exterior white for the background. So I can move forward with

    Gloss Lettering Enamel paint or Semi Gloss Lettering Enamel? Yes?

    Brushes? What to use to thin out the paint for smoothness?
     
  7. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    jv.... ya have to try to understand something. We're all trying to help you, really.

    However, if you continue to do stoopid things, you will be called on it. Whether or not you like it remains your problem, not ours. Do we have to be nice and answer each and every question about the same things over and over for years and still be cordial ?? Nope. We've been asking, answering and experimenting for years on end and sometimes we might feel grumpy or irritated at some of the silly questions. Now, you're here a few minutes and you're already copping an attitude and want justice and be one of the guys. Ya wanna be a little paint grasshopper, but not take the heat when your opinions or methods are far from good.

    Anyone that would say the things you said about a friend who has helped you and not going to ask questions is a fool if you don't tell your friend about your shortcomings. I would bet my bottom dollar, you will not take responsibility for your own shortcomings and blame someone else as you've displayed here in several of your posts.

    No, fool is not out of line according to what you already said. I could've said what was really on my mind, but you're new and I thought I'd go easy on you as instructed.

    Stay focused on what you are doing and do the best job you can. A seasoned sign person would educate his/her customer on the various pitfalls this person has set upon you. Telling them where they are going wrong and you now know what to really do, they can then make an educated decision to either make it correctly or continue down the path you originally set for them. Regardless, you should always strive to do your best and not make excuses as to why you feel justified in doing it wrong.
     
  8. HollisterSignCo

    HollisterSignCo New Member

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    Unless the letters are massive in size, you're going to have a hard time doing them cleanly with a standard brush. And a basic enamel paint at the hardware store will likely give you trouble as well. If you have the capability, go down to a local sign shop and ask to buy some One Shot lettering enamel (gloss) and get a decent lettering brush. Mack makes some good ones and most decent sign guys will tell you where to get one locally and what size depending on your lettering details. They are not too expensive- usually between $15-$25.

    To thin the paint while you're lettering, you can use one shot reducer, but the simpler way is to use Mineral Spirits that you can get at a local hardware store. You'll only be able to tell by practicing how much you'll need. Either you'll get too much drag on the brush or it will thin out too much and run down the face of your sign. Flat paint background will give you extra problems however if you have to wipe off the paint and try again- it WILL stain it. If you have a few extra dollars just get a can of white gloss latex or enamel and go over it. It will save you headaches when you start lettering.
     
  9. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    Turps is good for brush flow-out as well
     
  10. Jackpine

    Jackpine Major Contributor

    So is Penatrol. Keeps the viscosity and helps the paint to flow and smooth out. Turpentine or mineral spirits are good to thin the paint a bit.
     
  11. jviola

    jviola Member

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    Thanks everyone, much appreciated.

    John
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  12. jviola

    jviola Member

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    Thank you so much. :)
     
  13. Red Ball

    Red Ball Active Member

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    What is the design?
    Large simple letters?
    To get though this first project perhaps apply application tape across the surface. Lightly cut with A-Acto knife, peel away the area to be painted. Scuff with Scotch-Brite pad and roll the paint over the area. Peel the tape while the paint is still soft.

    Here's a thought for us old folks. Is friscut paper or spray-lat still sold?
     
  14. OldPaint

    OldPaint Major Contributor

    i am the one who called you an IDIOT. glad you dont like it. shows you got some intelligence and ability to learn. NOW PAY ATTENTION(said in a foghorn leghorn voice).
    #1. YOU AINT A PERFECTIONIST!!!
    #2. IF YOU WAS, you wouldnt have made the boo boo's you seem to keep doing.
    #3.THE TIME FRAME........and you letting him push you on that.....IS STUPID. if you are a perfectionist, you know you cant hurry "perfect."
    SOME ONE(YOU) need to take charge of this fiasco and then apply this perfectionist ideal you have of yourself to it!!!!!SOOOOOOOOOOOOO STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, go back and read and write a lot of the stuff in these post down....AND FOLLOW THEM TO PERFECTION)))))we been doin this stuff longer then you been breathing)))))
    #4. THE FLAT PAINTED WHITE BOARDS........repaint with gloss latex!!!!!!
    solves you primer problem, arent most PRIMER PAINTS ....FLAT?
    #5. not sure of the copy you need to put on these signs.....so once you got a good GLOSS FINISH you can probably paint the copy with them sponge brushes, un less you got some quills or flats.
    #6. 4 x 8 sign up in the air 40 feet.........is gona be about lookin at a 2" x 3" business card in your hand ........and you arm extended to max reach. KEEP THAT IN MIND for its readability. put the copy on the back of a 2 X 3 business card.....and see how it reads.
    you do take some of this advice, and make this thing work....ill retract waht i said!!!!hehehehehehehehehe
     
  15. Pat Whatley

    Pat Whatley Major Contributor

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    Seen from 30 yards away and 40 feet up I'm assuming there's very little lettering. So you painted the background flat white...pain in the *** but bearable. Use whatever paint he bought, draw out your letters, cut your edges in with a 1" flat artists brush ($8 at any art supply store) then fill the letters in with whatever you've got. You're going to have brush strokes from hell but it won't matter that far up. Coat your letters twice and get it out the door.

    Did you charge enough? Probably not. You'll still make money, you could probably have made more. What's done is done, finish it and move on.

    Personally I'd have sealed my edges, painted the board out with a couple of coats of Rustoleum Industrial Enamel gloss white (Lowes), then painted out my lettering with Rustoleum Industrial Enamel gloss red and black (Lowes). The Rustoleum has worked a whole lot better for me than One Shot the last few years.
     
  16. Jillbeans

    Jillbeans Major Contributor

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    I use 1" Foamies lots of times for lettering on smooth surfaces (like for window splashes)
    I buy 'em by the box, I don't get the real cheap spongy kind.
     
  17. jviola

    jviola Member

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    Yesterday I was a bit annoyed by two people out of everyone who spoke to me disrespectfully. Gino and Old Paint. Everyone else......thank you and much appreciated that you were able to answer without name calling and insulting me.

    Old Paint & Gino - Where do you live, what state? Gino - How old are you and How long have you been painting. I'm 44 yrs old Sicilian, been doing Martial Arts since I was 8 and am an X United States Marine, this combination for you wouldn't work in your favor. I'm the friendliest nicest guy ever, but I do not appreciate the way I'm being spoken to, and face to face I guarantee this wouldn't be happening.

    I posted yesterday how I felt it was not called for and my being upset. Then I went back in and deleted it thinking.......it's silly, let it go, forget it. Then I log on now and see you - Old Paint, speaking like that to me. telling me I've made REPEATED mistakes and on and on is unprofessional and out of line for someone like me who just asked question and made ONE mistake as far as just getting the wrong paint. For your information, I did go back yesterday and write down everything I needed and I'm already moving forward with the right paint, brushes, etc. Everything's all set.

    Please let me know when you come to Massachusetts to visit, I'm in the south shore, 40 minutes from Boston, I'd love to see you yelling at me & putting me down.

    I've been teaching Martial Arts for 10 years, I can't imagine talking to a student who was brand new that made one mistake and then acknowledge it and tried correcting it. Although, the Drill instructors in Paris Island had a different way of getting through to you, and I can't roll that way too. But it's not war time, it's signs.

    I will not continue to engage in arguments on the internet. If you two don't have anything to say respectfully, don't say it.......either that, call me on the phone or come over my house, I'll even pick you up. EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON that posted here was perfectly nice, respectful and polite.
     
  18. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    And that's supposed to make me re-think my answers to you.... idle threats and sh!t ?? :Oops:

    What does it matter what you know martial arts-wise ??

    I gave you solid answers to your questions...... and to which your business ethics are quite lacking and I told you so. So, for that, you want to threaten me about kicking my a$$ and other crap ??

    I take it, you like spouting off at the mouth and that must make you feel superior to anyone who crosses your path by telling them how great and strong you are and you're gonna come pick me up and dust the ground with me. Well, this is no place for threats, idle or otherwise, unless you just can't get your way and need to vent.

    It's not my problem you don't know what you're doing and when it's pointed out by many, you only let the nice people enter your world and the more direct honest people get treated like sh!t. Cry me a frickin' river when you've been at this as long as me or Old Paint.

    I've been in this business as long as you are alive and beyond that while learning. I've worked on portraits and scapes and patched museum works with curators and have worked on paintings several 100's of years old at times in my younger years, so fine arts painting is nothing new to me, but I made the jump into commercial painting and sign-painting in the late 60's early 70's and haven't looked back except on some very fond memories. I've done nothing but grow, learn and eat & breath this industry. It's a part of me. I own what I say and do.

    You... on the other hand, have come here looking for answers which you hadn't a clue as to what you were doing. Some of us picked up on it and some just were nice and treated you with kids gloves. If you need to learn by being treated like a pansy with kind and gentle words, I'm sorry for ruffling your feathers, but being a marine [and I salute you and thank you for your service] and all those other meanie-type macho things you described, then you should be capable of taking it like a man and not some a$$hat.

    You were annoyed. :covereyes: Humph........... How annoyed do you think you are to others or your friend when you wanted to serve up third or fourth grade materials and stuff and made up excuses for why you intended to do it ?? Don't be thinkin' we're frickin' mind-readers and come back a day later.... AND then tell us you changed a few things around.

    Don't like a spade being called a spade, then either don't ask stoopid questions or take all of it for what it is.
    Do you have kids ?? Do you have students that just can't do something ?? Do you have little momma's boys wanting to learn to kick butt ?? Are they all willing to take what you give them.... or do they listen without any questions ??

    Any of them ever get p!ssed at ya ?? What do you tell them..... Now Johnny, you don't put your weight all on the front foot, like I told you. You have to spread your weight and be prepared to re-distribute your weight with what comes next and be alert, Johnny, or you'll go flying. Does Johnny listen.... or is he like you and starts b!tching at you for correcting him ??


    Nope, no martial arts in my make up, but then, I never needed to boast about myself. I'm quite content with who I am and where I am in life.

    Nice meeting you. jv :thankyou:
     
  19. jviola

    jviola Member

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    Honestly, I don't want to argue with anyone. I have a new friend name Gino. Thanks Gino, nice talking with ya. Old Paint - we might need some work with you. :)

    JV
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  20. OldPaint

    OldPaint Major Contributor

    i have facebook page TAI CHI YANG STYLE PENSACOLA. I also have a facebook page A SIGN MINT. i am also ITALIAN(TOSCASNO) i also owned a real "biker" bar. and have met a lot of marines)))))
    NOW, since iam poopin in my pants of fear of you,
    as for this: "I've made REPEATED mistakes and on and on is unprofessional and out of line for someone like me who just asked question and made ONE mistake as far as just getting the wrong paint. For your information, I did go back yesterday and write down everything I needed and I'm already moving forward with the right paint, brushes, etc. Everything's all set."
    CONGRATULATIONS. i take back calling you an idiot. good job buckie))))) your learning.
    and i been to your part of mass, 1969-70 if my memory serves me right. i lived in CARIBOU MAINE from 1965-73, so i know you new england types well))))))))
    apparently you dont read everything i posted do you? did you see this?
    "said in a foghorn leghorn voice." HUMOR.....NEW ENGLAND DRY HUM A.
    oh and next time i need some boards broke for fire wood, i know who to call!!!hehehehehehe
    i have to say when reading the 1st post, i believed i was talking to a woman bout 20-25, who painted cartoon animals in daycare.
    now i know your age...........i apologize for making that assumption.
     
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