Over designing signs

[Pat Whatley]

So, a question came up this morning at the shop about stopping the design process.

Case in point...I had a lady come in this morning for Vacation Bible School banners. They are going with a western theme. Being a small church (and to my delight spending money frugally) she didn't want to pay an extra art charge so she was just going to go with vinyl letters in a "western" font.

Since I can sub out my banners for full color printing cheaper than I can to them in-house in vinyl I decided to just have it printed. I knew I had a "wanted poster" background so I imported it, since it was being printed I added a couple of outlines to the letters, and she'd mentioned adding some boots so I pulled those into it, too.

Setting it up for vinyl would have only taken a few minutes, doing it full color took less than 10 minutes. Doing the banner in vinyl would have taken me about half an hour for cutting, weeding, hemming and grommeting. Doing it digital in full color only took 10 minutes, it will come in Monday ready to hand to the customer.

I didn't think about it but my helper asked me after I'd done it why I gave away the design time. I tried to pass it off as the money I'd saved by avoiding 20 minutes of work covered the design time. He just smiled and said that using that philosophy the better I get and the faster I get the less I'll be making.

I hate it when he reads old SignCraft magazines.

So....how do you force yourself to just stop, knowing a couple of minutes is all there is between mediocre and good?

 

[Si Allen]

No ... you shouldn't have tried to pass it off as time saved!

You should have said that you did it because it was fun!

:Oops:

 

[Rick]

I use Si's philosophy if I am not busy.. if I am swamped, I turn into a design snot that wants to get paid (even if it's a stock stop sign)

 

[3dsignco]

I just won't let OK go out the Door.. Only Great. You want Ok go somewhere else..

So I keep telling myself. One day I might Listen to myself then I will start an argument with myself and then I will go to bed angry at myself. Then one thing leads to another and I will end having to divorce myself and pay myself alimony. Heck with myself.. I am going to be friends with ME.

 

[Jon Aston]

I agree with Si and Rick.

If you're making a habit of giving away design (which I doubt)... then smarten up! If you're spending a few extra minutes (when you have it) to go above-and-beyond to give customers something extra - and enjoying doing it - stop worrying. You're probably learning (honing your skills and productivity) and giving the customer reason to keep coming back (and to recommend you to friends and colleagues).

 

[SignManiac]

I just can't bring myself to do ordinary. I would hate this business if all I was doing was sticking letters on chit. If I'm not challenged, then I'm bored to death. I can think of many other ways to make money, I do what I do for the love of it.

 

[AUTO-FX]

I just can't bring myself to do ordinary. I would hate this business if all I was doing was sticking letters on chit. If I'm not challenged, then I'm bored to death. I can think of many other ways to make money, I do what I do for the love of it.

word to live by

 

[Ponto]

I just can't bring myself to do ordinary. I would hate this business if all I was doing was sticking letters on chit. If I'm not challenged, then I'm bored to death. I can think of many other ways to make money, I do what I do for the love of it.

I agree,... it's a shame the business component seems to complicate and muddy the waters, however.......

JP

 

[GypsyGraphics]

I just won't let OK go out the Door.. Only Great. You want Ok go somewhere else..

So I keep telling myself. One day I might Listen to myself then I will start an argument with myself and then I will go to bed angry at myself. Then one thing leads to another and I will end having to divorce myself and pay myself alimony. Heck with myself.. I am going to be friends with ME.

I like you Bill... you just made me feel less crazy for complaining about my boss. She's a slave driver, never lets me have a day off and nothings ever good enough. She says "good enough" really means you're not willing to put in the time it takes to get to good.
I may go to bed mad at her, but i'm over myself by morning.

 

[cfbeagle]

I hate it when he reads old SignCraft magazines.

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


The secretary must have taken that order...

 

[Mainframe]

I ALWAYS give the churches & Christian organizations my best designs. I have them coming through my door like crazy & don't think it is an accident. This is just my personal belief, To me it is fun to go the extra mile for these people, in my opinion it is a way for me to do my part. They always have a shoestring budget & I feel I will be rewarded in other ways. This may not be for everyone but so far it has worked well for me. I like to design & when I "donate" the time, it makes me feel good.

 

[ddubia]

I have to like what goes out the door or I'm not satisfied. Often I spend more design time than the customer is paying for. But I like to think going the extra mile is what brings customers coming back. And I know it's what keeps me loving what I do.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Ok heres my thoughts and what happens to over designing when only charging for certain amount.

Yes I want great not just good works well when designing ... as long as you charge for it.

Why .. your customer does not know between 1/2 design time and 1 hour design time and does not care ..... as long it is the SAME PRICE

When hand lettering you most certainly know the difference.

If you went to a mechanic they charge ..one mechanic, one hour, hand tools.. but they use power tools and get it done in 15 mins. still charge 1 hour ..correct.
Yes sometimes oh we fixed this error also no charge or low charge .. bigger shops would charge full price for same .... a smaller shop might use it as customer service hook..

Yes it does work well ...but troubles come with it ... if customer knows plain cost X better design cost XX . and best design cost XXX and your showroom has samples of each you can avoid troubles better.

Consider doing it by hand in bidding design and work not by machine you will profit better..
Ok you still of course want great not just good "bravo" if you design most of the time great not good customers will beat down your doors, yes indeed and you will be able to charge for it.

Case in point ... I use to add convexing fades etc. to alot of big lettering, just to put that extra bit for customer and me happy ..but everybody started wanting it and not wanting pay for it and I was putting in extra hours more and more, really started to lose money.

Now if they see this BEFORE sale I charge for it, everybody is happy and it's fair.

 

[Gino]

Yeah Pat………….

I think we all do it from time to time. I tend to do it more when a customer is understanding and not demanding. They get more for their dollar and I enjoy doing it.

After many years of designing and doing layouts, it becomes second nature to do most layouts for most signs, banners and trucks. When the really cool jobs come along, I tend to go a little overboard then, also. We don’t get the neat jobs Joe Diaz or Dan get… so; we don’t worry too much about giving certain things away when we want to.

Just because you or someone else in this field can do in 15 minutes what others take 2 hours to do… does not always mean you’re giving things away…. the others just might not have this part of the equation down and they toil a little harder over what comes more natural to you, thus they have to charge more.

What you described sounded more like a routine banner with some effects that were at your fingertips. It’s like having a library in your head and you can pick ‘n chose at your discretion what you need to put out a nice looking sign.

When handpainting, this trait was always at the artists disposal for gingerbread and making his/her sign stand out from the rest. Today with the computer scene…. you just have to be aware of what you really have in your arsenal.

 

[G-Artist]

What goes around comes around. What you sow, so shall you reap.

I am willing to bet that your customer will good-mouth you to several other potential and possibly lucrative clients.

 

[Allied Digital]

Originally Posted by SignManiac
I just can't bring myself to do ordinary. I would hate this business if all I was doing was sticking letters on chit. If I'm not challenged, then I'm bored to death. I can think of many other ways to make money, I do what I do for the love of it.

word to live by

Dito

 

[CropMarks]

If someone is being easy to work with and I have the extra time I like to play and mess around with things until I feel happy about what I've come up with.

Yesterday we were looking an A-frame sign we did for our neighbors and we all decided that there wasn't enough contrast to make the sign legible from a distance. So what did we do? We hijacked the sign and remade it for free. After we put it back they came out and saw it.... and started clapping. Yeah, we did loose money on more cut vinyl and time, but in the end we did the right thing.... which will lead to more word of mouth business.

 

[3dsignpros]

hmmm....

i agree with you in a sense of saving time, but not letting the artwork go...however you should be paid for the artwork, but if your trying to get the business without charging them extra then it is what it is. i personally enjoy striving for perfection minus the frustration!lol... i think your helper is on to something.

 

[Raulrdz]

Ding, Ding, Ding....we have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote of the Month Award should go to sign maniac!

If we don't love what we do...and don't care about quality and going the extra mile (when warranted) then we should look for another means of income.

 

[OldPaint]

iam in this...........BECAUSE I CAN DESIGN/CREATE .............more then plain ordinary signs that any one with M/S WORD or POWER POINT would come up with!!!!!!!!!!
that is why.........I KEEP DOING SIGNS/BANNERS for the same people year after year. i usually dont do any PLAIN/SIMPLE........UNLESS THEY SAY THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT!!!!!
on top of that, iam my own worst critic))))))))))))))))))))
any bozo with a printer & a computer can do SIMPLE, EASY & PLAIN.
do i give my design time away? if you mean iam not charging for it ..........up front, YEA, i do that. will i ever get RECOGNITION OF MY TALENT?
YEA, when someone walks in and wants me to do a sign for them............LIKE THE ONE I DID .......... they seen.......I HAVE DONE FOR SOMEONE ELSE))))))
in my years doing this, i have never reused a design for another customer..........