ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
Your most excellent form could use work order ID numbers.
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Paper Work Orders
- Thread starter ccleveland
- Start date
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
I've been following Signs101 long enough the know it has taken some shops a very long time to research and maybe adopt an order management solution. The most basic reason is the software buyer is not familiar enough with some basic database fundamentals and the software vendors not helping their potential buyers enough with those most basics.
Case in point; I just looked at SquareCoil's screenshots from their website. I will call out their list of materials as found in their estimating module as an example. Notice many of the material description / names begin with measurement values such as "1/8", etc. That naming convention fails to logically sort the materials by their names or description.
A fundamental process of any database is a routine along the lines of "find, list, sort." A user enters data into a certain blank field to find what they're looking for, the database finds any and all matching queries, then sorts the list in a logical manner such as alphabetically, etc. The demos of SquareCoil, SignTracker, ShopVOX, and probably others fail that simple task because they're playing fast and loose with leaving naming conventions for the end user to figure out.
In order to quickly setup a new software solution, it should be strongly recommended for users to first get their ducks in a row by organizing their current data such as the material list with their costs and specifications and product list with their components and prices ready to import into the new software. A spreadsheet (likely long) of each will quickly reveal organized data, or not, and missing data, if any. It is far too cumbersome to attempt entering so much individual sign shop data into most current solutions and especially web-based views. Importing from well formatted spreadsheets makes it much easier.
It's very common for sign shop to list nearly a thousand materials and hundreds of named products. (Some software vendors use the term "templates" as what are normally products so as far as sign making is concerned.) Understand many materials and products are just variations of their root making long lists more digestible.
A hint; Leave the measurement specification value of a material or product for the ending of the name and not the beginning.
Rough example...
SAV.Clear.Avery.1020 48"
SAV.Clear.Avery.1020 60"
SAV.Clear.Avery.2010 48"
SAV.Clear.Avery.2010 60"
SAV.White.3M.160C 48"
SAV.White.3M.160C 54"
SAV.White.3M.160C 60"
Another basic is; "One fact, one field." More later when I find some time.
JBurton
Signtologist
We are fortunate in that our previous setup had everything start with a number 0-9 based on departments. In this way you could bring up all paint supplies under say 1, vinyl under 2, so on and so forth. Problems show up on plenty of materials though, like who gets masking tape, 1 or 2? More annoying is the typical following identifier is a brand name. Then maybe a product number, with width as the end value. Further annoyance on our system is the need for sq/ft inventory, but god forbid you don't include the material width. It would be nice if the system accepted LF and figured out its own sq/ft usage, or if the ladies entering hand written list would do the math instead, but every time I list LF I get questioned, which is a waste of time.
All that is to say, I like your naming convention using material color right after category, I hadn't considered that one. I suppose I'd further break it down to printable and regular cut products as we handle both frequently.
myront
Dammit, make it faster!!
Didn't know any better at the time. We had someone here that was familiar with it from a previous job. I'll have to look into squarecoil.
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
Besides the efficiency of using organized lists, there is another very important benefit of thoughtful naming conventions in which certain parts of the name might play rolls in calculations and formulas. For example, a material name might include its width and that width value helps determine the cost and price of a quoted line item by the linear feet required vs just printed square feet.
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
A very long time ago I began contriving my one and only list of sign components of materials and services, I gathered around 6-8 spreadsheets and website grabs from the likes of 3M, Avery, HP, Epson, Interstate Electric (now gone?) etc., to glean key terms and methods they used. I then created my own spreadsheet with just a few columns; OriginalSupplyName, MyRootCategory, AttributeA, AttributeB, AttributeC as a start but knowing I would likely combine certain attributes into a single column but which suppliers tend to separate.
After organizing the materials by their roots, I dissected the original name specifications and normalized them into my preferred order of attribute columns. It took some trial and error. The last column of my spreadsheet is a calculation of my columns to result in a new component name including "dot" separators between the attributes.
I remember it took me the better part of a day to be satisfied with the names and knowing the last part of certain named items would work for my use in certain calculations and formulas.
It's only from there that most products may be conveniently named and listed because the products are made and priced of said components.
After organizing the materials by their roots, I dissected the original name specifications and normalized them into my preferred order of attribute columns. It took some trial and error. The last column of my spreadsheet is a calculation of my columns to result in a new component name including "dot" separators between the attributes.
I remember it took me the better part of a day to be satisfied with the names and knowing the last part of certain named items would work for my use in certain calculations and formulas.
It's only from there that most products may be conveniently named and listed because the products are made and priced of said components.
Shred_signs
Lost Member
does ANYONE actually like Cyrious? I hated it the 2.5 years i was stuck using it.
Stacey K
I like making signs
Your three posts make perfect sense. The naming convention is the most important part to successfully and QUICKLY using the software. The solve the square foot/Linear issue I have everything listed in square feet but the products that I often use as linear the have an L in front of them.
IJ35 = square foot
L IJ35 = linear
For my vinyl colors, I made the mistake of writing out the entire name Oracal Black. I need to go back and fix my spreadsheet to say OR black or simply O Black.
It's probably not the best way to name things but I want to type the least amount of keystrokes as possible to get to the correct list of drop downs.
One thing that is still trouble some is the apparel. I have them listed as the item number then I manually type in the color and size. I need to download the spreadsheet from Sanmar and copy/paste my most popular items to insert them.
Currently I have - 2000 Gildan - then I manually add - Black Large - once I see it pop up on the drop down.
Your posts are probably the most important posts on here for people to read!
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
Been there done that one before.
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
Care to say what you hated about Cyrious in particular?
IMHO, Cyrious was a rich backend with a poor presentation of the front end, so to speak.
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
"Fillable" PDF forms have been mentioned earlier in the thread.
As a reminder, data from the fillable fields of the forms are exportable to common formats. So, be sure to save any used forms for the day you find the want and need to capture all that historical data to populate records of any new system that you might adopt.
As a reminder, data from the fillable fields of the forms are exportable to common formats. So, be sure to save any used forms for the day you find the want and need to capture all that historical data to populate records of any new system that you might adopt.