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Paving dump truck printed vinyl failing
- Thread starter jeffkics
- Start date
brycesteiner
New Member
You'll have to charge a premium for this and just let them know that it's not warranted with that kind of heat. I really think that 2 years isn't that bad considering what it's going through.
Another responder suggested paint. I tend to agree or just have to understand that it's literally melting it.
Another responder suggested paint. I tend to agree or just have to understand that it's literally melting it.
It is a 7 mil film which makes it 3.5 times thicker than IJ180, that might insulate the laminate to some degree? Pretty obvious that extreme heat is the culprit, just look at the top of the "C" and "H" in both photos are perfectly fine.
equippaint
Active Member
Why charge a premium and then not warranty it? Its an easy install with standard materials. That makes zero sense.
brycesteiner
New Member
What standard printing vinyl are you going to use that is rated for that kind of heat?
mpn
New Member
IMHO that's a sunburned graphic. Have a box van in my yard now that is parked in the same spot everyday. Graphic is oracal cast with matching cast laminate. Starts to burn around the 1.5 year mark like clockwork. Replacement is 2:1 versus the other side. Also noticed when the trucks are parked in a row it seems to accelerate the issue, maybe more reflection/heat caused by the trucks being stacked together.
equippaint
Active Member
You tell me. You said charge a premium no warranty but for what and why? I see no warranty but why a premium?
equippaint
Active Member
Probably right. We painted a crane about 2 years ago with a middle of the road polyurethane, same as we use on everything. Its parked (and sits half the time) in the same spot everyday. The southern facing side is faded badly and we dont have this problem with other things we have painted.
Sign Works
New Member
I agree with the laminate UV burn as commonly seen with Oracals calendered lam films (210). I have had good luck with Oracals cast lam films (290) as long as it's on a vertical surface, put it on the hood of a vehicle and it goes to shit in a couple years. So this is now occurring with latex inks, so much for the solvent outgassing claims from the media manufacturers.
Also think the 350 degree asphalt is a contributing factor just like engine heat on vehicle hoods.
Also think the 350 degree asphalt is a contributing factor just like engine heat on vehicle hoods.
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signbrad
New Member
Sometimes a problem can have multiple contributing factors rather than just one.
I used to work on cars. I could hang parts with the best of them. But troubleshooting is a different ballgame. I never pretended to be good at it. When two, three or more problems present symptoms at the same time, often overlapping symptoms, even a good mechanic with a computer can be stymied. The mechanics that seem to have a feel for diagnostics seem like magicians to me.
TROUBLESHOOTING VINYL FAILURES
1. A vehicle that sits in the same position daily will experience graphics failure on one side quicker than the other, whether it's vinyl or paint.
2. Laminate choices obviously make a difference. Both UV exposure and simple heat from the sun takes its toll on any given material, and some weather better than others.
3. Heating of the metal dump bodies caused by hot road material surely is a factor. Do not most of us use heat to remove graphics?
4. And a solvent wash? The chemicals that commonly remove wax and tar also attack adhesives, and probably the vinyl films themselves, too.
5. And, again obviously, poor surface prep can be a factor on any existing surface.
Five possible problems. Which is the culprit? One? a combination? or all of them?
And which of these factors does the sign guy have control over? Only two of them. So, would it be wise to offer any warranty in situations like this? I wouldn't.
Better to thoroughly prep, not just the substrate, but the client, too. So that the client understands what can cause early failures, and so that they understand that no graphics will last forever under these conditions. Of course, this is always clearer in hindsight.
My preference on re-doing a job like this would probably be to offer to put graphics on by painting, not with lettering enamels, but with polyurethanes on a well-prepped surface, and then hope for five years durability. And no warranty. It may last significantly longer than five years, but I would give no guarantee. I would simply tell the client that this method has the best chance of lasting the longest.
But, of course, I'm a painter. Naturally, I will suggest paint. Not everyone has this option.
And painting may call for a more simplified layout. And a significantly higher price tag. The client may not want to spend the money. But losing a job is cheaper than re-doing a job, isn't it? Better to let your competitor find out the hard way what doesn't work. Then learn from them.
As this industry evolves, manufacturers continue to improve their offerings. Many of us like to be on the cutting edge of developments, using new materials and techniques as they come on to the market. I like using new tools, too. Isn't this part of the fun?
However, though I like looking at the ads for bicycle helmets with heads-up displays, I'm waiting. If I'm not happy with a purchase it will be an expensive mistake. And I expect the prices will drop, anyway, as they always do with electronics.
So, sometimes I prefer to stay back in the pack where it's safe. Let others innovate. I know many give guarantees on sign work but I believe that at least some of them are just holding their breath and hoping for the best. I am not criticizing. We need these risk-takers. Where would parachute technology be today without them?
Brad
I used to work on cars. I could hang parts with the best of them. But troubleshooting is a different ballgame. I never pretended to be good at it. When two, three or more problems present symptoms at the same time, often overlapping symptoms, even a good mechanic with a computer can be stymied. The mechanics that seem to have a feel for diagnostics seem like magicians to me.
TROUBLESHOOTING VINYL FAILURES
1. A vehicle that sits in the same position daily will experience graphics failure on one side quicker than the other, whether it's vinyl or paint.
2. Laminate choices obviously make a difference. Both UV exposure and simple heat from the sun takes its toll on any given material, and some weather better than others.
3. Heating of the metal dump bodies caused by hot road material surely is a factor. Do not most of us use heat to remove graphics?
4. And a solvent wash? The chemicals that commonly remove wax and tar also attack adhesives, and probably the vinyl films themselves, too.
5. And, again obviously, poor surface prep can be a factor on any existing surface.
Five possible problems. Which is the culprit? One? a combination? or all of them?
And which of these factors does the sign guy have control over? Only two of them. So, would it be wise to offer any warranty in situations like this? I wouldn't.
Better to thoroughly prep, not just the substrate, but the client, too. So that the client understands what can cause early failures, and so that they understand that no graphics will last forever under these conditions. Of course, this is always clearer in hindsight.
My preference on re-doing a job like this would probably be to offer to put graphics on by painting, not with lettering enamels, but with polyurethanes on a well-prepped surface, and then hope for five years durability. And no warranty. It may last significantly longer than five years, but I would give no guarantee. I would simply tell the client that this method has the best chance of lasting the longest.
But, of course, I'm a painter. Naturally, I will suggest paint. Not everyone has this option.
And painting may call for a more simplified layout. And a significantly higher price tag. The client may not want to spend the money. But losing a job is cheaper than re-doing a job, isn't it? Better to let your competitor find out the hard way what doesn't work. Then learn from them.
As this industry evolves, manufacturers continue to improve their offerings. Many of us like to be on the cutting edge of developments, using new materials and techniques as they come on to the market. I like using new tools, too. Isn't this part of the fun?
However, though I like looking at the ads for bicycle helmets with heads-up displays, I'm waiting. If I'm not happy with a purchase it will be an expensive mistake. And I expect the prices will drop, anyway, as they always do with electronics.
So, sometimes I prefer to stay back in the pack where it's safe. Let others innovate. I know many give guarantees on sign work but I believe that at least some of them are just holding their breath and hoping for the best. I am not criticizing. We need these risk-takers. Where would parachute technology be today without them?
Brad
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Also Some of these trucks have there Exhaust running through the bed to keep load hot/warm . is this one ?
Wow, would have never known that. Lots of great info here.
Wanted to give an update on this, I recently had another paver come in with this problem. While cleaning the vinyl off I accidentally separated the laminate from the print, and to my amazement found that it was not the vinyl that was discolored but the laminate was the culprit. The print is absolutely perfect under there. The laminate has failed. Check out the pictures. This is ij180 with 8518
Attachments
BobM
New Member
Most companies hand spray diesel on the inside of the body before being loaded. Usually from one side. May be a contributing factor over time on the side the spray from?????
We used to own a dumptruck company and yes, diesel gets sprayed all over the truck to get tar off plus the load must stay over 200 degrees at all times and very easy over 300 at time of loading. there should be a small hole drilled in the side somewhere where the guys at the job site stick a thermometer in the hole to check the temp. under 200 and the load is rejected. seems to me like the laminate is not holding up to the heat and diesel combo.
synergy_jim
New Member
That vinyl is baked. These beds should be painted.