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Need Help Perforated Frustration

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gventer

New Member
I was out of the signage industry for ±10 years and then never used perforated vinyls.

One of my first request, now, was for a vehicle rear window installation - on a older VW Passat.

The print went well, the problem came with the lamination, I think

I used the optically clear Avery DOL 1360 to laminate the image.
Please note - I have not yet acquired a laminator yet, so I tried a wet application.

Obviously this was not a good idea, as moisture will be trapped,
so I reprinted and with a lot of trouble got it laminated.

But when it was installed on the vehicle we could not view through the rear window at all.

So I removed it and installed it unlaminated - it works as expected,
but this will not last, and when it rains the same problem appears, you cannot view through the rear window.

Any suggestions please.
Is it the lamination process? Will I have to use a laminator?
or is it the wrong laminate?
 
O

oksigns

New Member
for the most part, laminates tend to be pressure activated. if you do not have a way to evenly and consistently apply lam properly, the adhesion layer will not bond evenly. must use some kind of applicator for this process.

most of everyone will say here that wet application of perf is not needed; especially for unlaminated applications- it's just too forgiving!

Clarity after application of laminated perf is dependent on the lam, temperature, and even application.
 
d fleming

d fleming

New Member
The unlaminated perf on my own truck lasted over 3 years. It was flat so it went on dry. In the am or after it rains water or condensation will collect in the holes for a brief time. That's what side view mirrors are for, lol. For large window apps or complicated surfaces rapid tac II is your friend. If for any reason you need to pull a section up and lay it back down you stand a good chance of tearing the perf because of the weakness holes impart to the film if you do it dry. My 2 cents.
 
A

Andy D

Active Member
Any body use frog juice spray laminate on perforated vinyl?
A possible work around (I would think, we don't do much perf) is to apply your perforated print
on top of the optically clear laminate and then laminate the print with optically clear ( so lam, perfed print, lam)...
that would prevent the water from being trapped in the holes..

Again, I'm just "thinking out loud", not sure either one of these would be the right solution..
 
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MikePro

MikePro

New Member
before I had a laminator, I would just use aerosol or roll-on liquid lam for perf.

edited for more info: nay-say'rs will say that the perf holes will fill with water/debris, and will be difficult to see-thru, which is true. which is why an optically-clear overlam, via laminator or skill'd big-squeegee'r, & dry-applied is ideal for longevity. it will also never be 100% clear, because technically you're looking through a plastic layer that rests about 4mil from the surface of the glass, but it's the best option available for this unless you can print white onto clear vinyl.
 
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300mphGraphics

300mphGraphics

New Member
BigfishDM said:
It appears you did not use OPTICALLY clear lam. I read the description on that material and it looks like standard cast but not optically clear.
Click to expand...
The new Avery 1360z is optically clear. Don't remember if the 1360 was, it has been discontinued for a while. We just use One Shot UV Clear Acrylic Gloss. The perf on the shop truck has been on for over 4 years. Hard to see out it in the rain but it doesn't rain much here in the desert.
 
D

DJr

New Member
Avery DOL1360 is not optically clear and avoid wet applications at any cost. You could use 3M 8518 cast lam this is used on printed wrap vinyl for UV an scratch protection but has a dual use and can be used on perforated vinyl as well being that it is optically clear.
 
I

ikarasu

Active Member
DJr said:
Avery DOL1360 is not optically clear and avoid wet applications at any cost. You could use 3M 8518 cast lam this is used on printed wrap vinyl for UV an scratch protection but has a dual use and can be used on perforated vinyl as well being that it is optically clear.
Click to expand...

8518 is not optically clear... It adds a yellowish tint. 8518 is a great overlam, we use it on 90% of our stuff. But we use a real Avery optically clear for any window perf.

8914 is 3ms variant of optically clear. I've only used it when 3m material was required specs.. which for window film had only been for 1 government job, so not much experience with it.
 
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J

juan.runnells

Production Manager Wide Format
The original 1360 was not optically clear, the 1360z is. 60/40 or higher is useless on angled windows as you are cutting down the vision with the angled window. Anything with an angled window I would use 50/50.

Also. Even with optically clear, it will take a couple days for the haze to clear.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
 
G

GaSouthpaw

Profane and profane accessories.
Actually, despite many of the responses saying otherwise, 300mphgraphics is correct- the 1360 is optically clear, according to Avery. Having never used it myself, I can't say how good that clarity is, but you have to take them at their word.

I found long ago that a "problem" you can run into with the laminated perf is- if the installer uses a hard squeegee- you really don't get the laminate to adhere to the window where the holes are. That admittedly thin gap between the laminate and the window can cause distortion. Using a felt squeegee and moderate heat usually solves the problem- though I've rarely ever needed to heat the stuff.

Also, I would never use application fluid (of any kind) with window perf. The stuff is just so easy to work with, fluid is superfluous. And, if the stuff is laminated, fluid is a terrible idea.

Also also, as Moze said, you may have used the wrong pattern. On vehicle windows, you're supposed to use 50/50 (per regulations) because you're not supposed to limit visibility.
 
boxerbay

boxerbay

New Member
avery 1360 is not optically clear. AV1360Z is optically clear. also, you should not do a wet install. you will trap water in the holes.
we use oracal 290GF
 
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