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Please convert all fonts when creating your pdf's

Discussion in 'Adobe' started by myront, Apr 12, 2019 at 3:11 PM.

  1. myront

    myront CorelDRAW is best

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    This is driving me nuts. I continue to get files in pdf format which typically is the best option but you have to know the proper way to set them up.
    ALL FONTS MUST BE CONVERTED!
    NO TRANSPARENCIES! All you have to do is eyedropper the color produced by the transparency and create a solid filled shape.

    I have the latest version of illustrator, Adobe Acrobat Pro, and other. All too often these files will not "open" in illy because of missing fonts. Tried doing a "Place" then save as pdf, that was no go. Tried opening in Acrobat Pro and optimizing and re-save as pdf. That, too, was a no go. I don't have time to track down what fonts are missing and "find" them. That's why you will be charged an extra art fee.

    Quickest solution is to open the pdf in photoshop. flatten then save out as a tif. This makes for a much larger file. 21 rasterized pdf's! Still get charged an art fee.

    The most simple solution for a 1 page "sign" layout is to convert the fonts then make the pdf.

    p.s. you will be charged an art fee for this message
     
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  2. untitled

    untitled Member

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    Not sure if you are ranting, or just yelling at all of us who deal with the same **** lol?
     
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  3. bannertime

    bannertime "You guys do banners, right?"

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    Preaching to the choir man! I've considered sending a PDF Profile and Action to give to these designers that will "prepress" their art before sending it.

    Luckily Flexi will offer to convert the fonts to paths and pull the image while Illustrator won't do either.
     
  4. The Vector Doctor

    The Vector Doctor Very Active Member

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    I posted a trick many years ago on this site on how to deal with live fonts in a pdf
     
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  5. The Vector Doctor

    The Vector Doctor Very Active Member

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  6. eahicks

    eahicks Very Active Member

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    Same here.... best workaround is opening in PS, saving out a new PDF. Photoshop might ask for the fonts but will display them until you try to edit any text.
     
  7. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    I've long known about the font conversion trick with PDFs, but it does require a fairly current version of Adobe Illustrator for the trick to work. And the application generating the PDF must embed the fonts (or subsets of them) as well. On the bright side most applications do embed font data by default when generating PDFs. That usually only gets changed if the user gets in there fiddling with PDF output settings.

    I don't agree with the judgment on transparency effects. It's one thing if we're talking about a solid color fill overlapping another object. When transparency effects are used in things like gradient fills there's really no alternative other than rasterizing the artwork. Transparency effects on their own are not a bad thing. In the context of PDFs, transparency effects are part of a bigger and more problematic issue with PDFs being used as an artwork exchange format.

    The experts at Adobe warn that PDF files are not really intended for that purpose even though many people use PDFs just that way. PDFs are really meant for print output or read-only display of documents online or in the Adobe Reader app.

    The problem with most PDFs is they're not Adobe Illustrator-friendly, much less friendly to any other drawing applications. Transparency effects are just one of several things that turn imported PDF artwork into a cubist nightmare soup of clipping masks, clipping groups, broken open paths, shifted colors, whacked out gradients, vector objects converted into raster form and multiple duplication of many objects.

    Astute Graphics' Vector First Aid plug-in for Illustrator can quickly solve a bunch of problems with an imported PDF. But it's not perfect. Depending on the artwork a good bit of editing and re-organization may be required to get the artwork back into proper shape.

    Adobe Illustrator can save really good quality PDFs, provided if the user saves the PDF using the correct settings, including putting a check on the critical "preserve Illustrator editing capabilities" box. But if the PDF is going to be opened by another copy of Illustrator it's usually better to just convert all the fonts to outlines and send an Illustrator .AI file. Or include the fonts with the file if someone on the other end has to do further type editing.

    That procedure is okay if you don't mind the entire PDF being rasterized. If you're trying to import artwork for further editing then Adobe Illustrator is usually the best tool for opening the PDF.
     
  8. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Or if there is DRM on the font itself (all of my paid for fonts have some form of DRM, some "stronger" then others).

    I guess this would depend just how much one bothers with the EULA as well on that and again the DRM on the font itself. I've known some to be tied to an account that is embedded within the font itself.

    Some even only allow so many installs per license.
     
  9. I know that Adobe Illustrator and Corel Draw allow you to convert type to outlines when importing pdf files. There may be some kind of setting one must use that controls whether or not the font outline data is sent, but the default setting that most everybody uses seems to work fine (I have done this dozens of times).

    As far as EULA and DRM concerns go, I don't see any difference between outlining fonts when I receive them or having them sent to you already outlined. I'm not going to say whether the text is editable prior to outlining (use flatten transparency command in Adobe products), but rather let your own sense of ethics guide you.
     
  10. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    It's more about the TTF/OTF file being sent with the design. Licenses are for use, not for distribution (in most instances, certainly with the paid fonts).

    I have fonts that do not allow for them to be embedded live when sending out a PDF, no matter the option(s) (de)selected. Thus being able for the person at the other end of the line being able to use them is not looking good.

    Here is the thing, keeping the text live, is hit or miss with it working for the next person down the line. It is. The tricks mentioned here, I haven't had much success with them working, if at all. What does work 100% of the time is outlining the fonts. It is a basic procedure that should be known (if it is or isn't is another matter, but it should be known).

    Keep a master file with text live for you, but outline those suckers when sending out.
     
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  11. richsweeney

    richsweeney Member

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    half offset print and half wide format person speaking, Why do you need to even open up the pdf in AI? We really try not to. If we do, we have one seat of a program called Pitstop pro, that does all kinds of tricks.
    If that does not work, we sometimes drop it back in to ID, then re output to a new pdf, or we press shift-control- x within acrobat pro, and that will fix many problems, mostly with MS software. We have been using onyx since 2011, and just upgraded to the PDF native rip, have had very few ripping issues. We have had a 100% pdf work flow since 1998.
     
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  12. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Member

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    Exactly what same question I wondering about. Thanks for saving me the effort!
     
  13. unclebun

    unclebun Active Member

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    Because we are being sent logos that we have to integrate into a design, like a sign, brochure, or car wrap. Not all of us a print bureaus which receive ready to print files and just produce a printed item for the customer. We also have to take parts of a logo to use, or change phone numbers which were included in the file. And we might have to do it in Flexi or Corel or some other software.
     
  14. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Member

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    Not at all the same issue(s) as the original post.
     
  15. iPrintStuff

    iPrintStuff Member

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    I have never had any problems doing it the vector doctors way.

    Open ai, place PDF (with “linked” box checked). Flatten it with “convert text to outlines” checked and we’re good to go.

    If the customer needs any content changed etc rather than just needing to take parts of a logo to use, then the customer will just need charged for you to buy the font. If all you need is the parts of the logo, the aforementioned should suffice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019 at 6:55 PM
  16. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    Regarding DRM features with fonts, very few of the commercial fonts I own or my workplace owns will prevent font embedding in PDFs. Nevertheless, the only fonts I keep live in any PDFs I create are the typefaces used for sign descriptions, material specifications and other info. Everything in the actual design is converted to outlines. Depending on the artwork I may generate PDF-based client sketches in CorelDRAW or do it using Adobe Illustrator. For example, if I fill any objects using free-form gradients (a new feature in AI CC 2019) I'll have to use Illustrator for the design work, making scale drawing sketches and generating PDFs of the sketches for clients.

    Only under very rare circumstances will I send actual font files along with art file. Usually it has to do with the artwork having to be output in some special process we can't do in house and have to job it out. Normally I would just convert all the text to outlines, but if big passages of text are involved then you have to do something to package the fonts and any other related assets with the art file. I never give clients copies of font files. We've paid quite a bit of money for our growing collection of commercial fonts. Giving those files to clients would be extremely stupid. Aside from EULA violations, sharing fonts with clients makes it very likely those same clients would share the font files with competing sign companies. I do a lot of things with my PDFs to make them difficult for rival sign companies to use. Password protecting the PDF at the edit level is one trick. Another is rasterizing much of the artwork.

    For over 20 years now I've been converting all the type to outlines in my designs. I keep good records and do other things to make it very easy to update text in a given sign design file. There's just too many liabilities with keeping the text live once a design is complete. All sorts of odd things can happen when you open a design file years or even a decade or more later.

    A given graphics application can change how it handles type as that application is updated through multiple version upgrade cycles. Paragraph body copy may flow differently. Effects on type (like text on path) may not work the same. And then there can be different builds of the same typeface, even from the same foundry. If you don't have the same exact font files installed when the art file was created years ago there will be font substitution errors. It's easier to convert the type to outlines and record which specific fonts were used if necessary.

    When customers provide copies of their artwork, logos, etc the artwork may arrive in PDF format. Gotta open the PDF in Illustrator to extract a logo to use in a sign design layout. There are many other instances when customers bring in a dopey PNG or JPEG image of their logo. If the company brand is big enough it's possible to go hunting online for PDFs that might have vector-based versions of the logo embedded. For major brands it's still best to get their legit vector logo files along with usage guidelines, color specs, etc. But snagging a big company's logo out of a corporate PDF can at least get the ball rolling quickly.

    Sometimes a non-Illustrator-friendly PDF is the best thing they have to submit. I remember having to really bust my *** fixing PDF artwork for a company called Surf City Squeeze. Looking at the original PDF artwork in wireframe view was the stuff of nightmares.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019 at 5:42 PM
  17. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    All of my commercial fonts have that feature that were not bundled in with software that I had purchased. I have yet to be able to not get around font substitution error when received PDFs that actually have vector/live text info. Now, as to if it's based on the font with DRM on it or if it's due to the sender's own bad practices with exporting the file to PDF, that I don't know.

    In both situations are EULA violations. I don't recall stipulations for on the EULA for extenuating circumstances to share files even in regard to your first scenario.

    I'm so glad that I don't have to worry about that and ironically not even using proprietary formats, in some cases even if I were to send out my working production files.

    One of the joys of being a VM fiend and still maintaining old copies of software and OSs is that that isn't much of an issue. I can still open a file in the very same software that I created it in today, however, it is prudent to still have notes along with the file.

    And that also makes the below situation moot:

    The joys of VMs and the cost of having a computer powerful enough to run them isn't that much anymore.

    Not everyone's cup of tea that's for sure.

    Having said that, this would actually be a reason to keep something that is typically more accepted in other programs then in a live master file with effects live as programming changes (or at least in theory it should, some programs are just bloated with legacy code).
     
  18. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    We buy a lot of fonts not bundled in graphics software. I usually buy OpenType fonts from MyFonts. I can't recall ever having a problem embedding font data with any of those purchased fonts into a PDF. Heck, most of the fonts I sync from Adobe Fonts/Typekit will embed into PDFs.
     
  19. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    I've never bought from MyFonts. Not that I have anything against them, just never have.
     
  20. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    I watch the MyFonts web site pretty closely along with a couple others. MyFonts appears to have more introductory deals on new type releases than other competing sites. It's pretty nice to snag a new, high quality OpenType family loaded with lots of OTF features at a 80% or 90% discount. It's no sweat to spend around $40 on a type family that would otherwise cost $300, $400 or more. MyFonts offers quite a few periodic deals on existing type families. Combine that with the What The Font service. At least for me that makes MyFonts the first site I visit when looking for fresh new type families to buy.
     
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