Please read if your are considering Arlon GTX

[Flame]

I like hearing others feedback who have used it before. Could it be just a specific batch or 1 years batch? Just what a certain supplier received, or hit and miss?

 

[BigfishDM]

I do not speak for Arlon. However, I can say that we have sold thousands of rolls of Arlon products since 1990. Arlon makes a great product and stands behind it. We have had a handful of issues over the years which Arlon ALWAYS took care of. In my opinion, it's not the issues you have, it's how you handle them that makes a good company great.

As far as GTX goes: The only laminate Arlon specs with this product is 3220. We have seen failures when the product is stretched and over-used for a calendered media. Also, Mimaki ink seems to destroy the adhesive when laminated too fast.

Our failures have been few and far between, even when the product was over-used Arlon replaced it. If your not getting the same service I would guess it's the vendor you purchase from, not Arlon.

In any event, sorry to hear about the problems some have had.

Ryan

Replacing a bad roll is not what I would call "standing behind their product" it sounds like Flame could potentially lose a few accounts over this. Is arlon gonna reimburse for his time or ink? I doubt it. No one really stands behind their product like they really should in my opinion if you get bad product you need to get reimbursed for ink and labor.

I offer that type of warranty and would love to see more dealers do the same but thats why I dont sell avery or arlon also. Sometimes my products are a little bit more but the client has piece of mind that they are really covered when I tell them this product will work like I said it would work.

 

[300mphGraphics]

As far as GTX goes: The only laminate Arlon specs with this product is 3220.

I'm a little confused here. 3220 = cast lam, 4560 = calendared vinyl. The 3420 I asked about above = calendared. Shouldn't it be a 4560/3420 pairing? That is what my supplier is selling me. Though they do also offer a "wrap pack" that has the 4560 and 3220 on their website, which has been wrong before.

 

[SE SignSupply]

I like hearing others feedback who have used it before. Could it be just a specific batch or 1 years batch? Just what a certain supplier received, or hit and miss?

Thats an interesting question.

Our inventory of Arlon digital is set to turn over every month. Meaning every month, our objective it to replace all stock of Arlon. While this does not always happen, we come pretty close.

IMHO if all distributors did this the product supply chain would be better. If my customer gets a bad roll and never knows it, next time he comes to order again most likely it will be from a diffent batch. On the same note, if a MFG has a bad run, I don't distribute hundreds of rolls of bad product.

I can tell you Arlon does run very lean, product is basically made to order. If someone orders 1000 rolls they are going to be from the same production run. If there is a problem, it's a big one.

 

[Prism1]

Here are a few links to ARLON. We have used 4560GTX for various projects over the last 4-5 years, some good, some not so good. Bottom line is, it works great on FLAT surfaces, but it Will pull out of vehicles channels like someone mentioned, and will Not stay down around rivets/screws. It is a Calendered material...not gonna stay down.

3M Primer EATS the adhesive...so that's a no-no.

Not trying to "Flame"...but outgassing is Not a myth. It has been proven in many test, and you can see in one of these Sheets, it tells you it Must Dry for a min. of 12 hours. If you think it's a myth, call 3M, Oracal, Mactac, Arlon and ask them. Do lots of shops do it...yep. Is it the right way...nope. Flamey...I know you can tell when stuff has dried and not dried. It just does not install the same way.

http://www.arlon.com/Objects/Documents/TIPS/TIP_34_Guide to Using 4560GT_4560GTX.pdf

In this second link, click on 4560 GTX, then click on the top "Supporting Documents". The Product Brochure CLEARLY shows how and where on a vehicle it can be used...so to say that it does not belong on a vehicle is not correct...According to Arlon of course ;-)

http://www.arlon.com/Utilities/Product/ProductListing.aspx?SelLevel=0&SelVal=2&PrID=12568

 

[SE SignSupply]

Replacing a bad roll is not what I would call "standing behind their product" it sounds like Flame could potentially lose a few accounts over this. Is arlon gonna reimburse for his time or ink? I doubt it. No one really stands behind their product like they really should in my opinion if you get bad product you need to get reimbursed for ink and labor.

I offer that type of warranty and would love to see more dealers do the same but thats why I dont sell avery or arlon also. Sometimes my products are a little bit more but the client has piece of mind that they are really covered when I tell them this product will work like I said it would work.

Getting replacement product for material that was clearly used outside of it's intended use is pretty good in my book.

You don't sell Avery or Arlon, which of your material manufactures pay for labor/ink/overhead/travel/pr damage/ etc, that come from a product failure? Are you saying you are personally going to cover all of those cost in the event of a problem?

 

[Flame]

Let's not turn it into a outgassing arguement, but I know for a fact several of these jobs had a minimum of 24 hours to dry.

 

[BigfishDM]

Getting replacement product for material that was clearly used outside of it's intended use is pretty good in my book.

You don't sell Avery or Arlon, which of your material manufactures pay for labor/ink/overhead/travel/pr damage/ etc, that come from a product failure? Are you saying you are personally going to cover all of those cost in the event of a problem?

Yes Sir thats correct, I sell Oracal, Ritrama, General Formulations and 3M and I have personally covered cost of ink and labor on only 2 jobs in the last 5 years because I always ask what their using it for and suggest the correct product. The failures were both on 3M and my 3M reps got me reimbursed for what I did so it didnt cost me anything in the end.

 

[BigfishDM]

For me it seems easy to just ask one simple question when accounts order adhesive vinyl: What are you using it for? If the rep told Flame he could use it for what he used it for and it failed then I would expect my sales rep to pay for all my ink and labor for sure. I am not sure if thats what happened, Im just saying thats how I do it.

 

[rgaskins]

I have to agree with Flame, I have used it before on go kart graphics and wasn't happy at all...The Arlon started pulling away leaving the black looking adhesive behind...It was a job to get all the black off to replace with 3m...I use Oracal and 3M and never had any issues...For me I'm scared to ever try it again...

Also, some of the Arlon wasn't printed...Just plain white, so outgassing wasn't the problem on that...


But in Arlons defence, the product did come from Proveer so it may have been in there warehouse for years or some scratch and dent rolls the got out of the garbage...Who knows with them...

 

[johnnysigns]

Flame when you say dry did you properly unspool the graphics so air could migrate between layers or perhaps lay out the pieces on tables?

 

[Flame]

Flame when you say dry did you properly unspool the graphics so air could migrate between layers or perhaps lay out the pieces on tables?

Oh, yeah never stack vinyl.

 

[chopper]

this is why I do not use the cheap stuff,
I use the 6000 series with air release and I have never had an issue,
I how ever had problems with Oracal but it was the opposite, it was sticking to hard if you were wraping a job and it touched the surface it was all over you couldn't snap it back off for nothing. and it was also a beotch to get it off when it was time to remove it, I guess what I am saying is they all have their problems I have found that it is cheaper in the long run to just pay the extra for the good stuff than it is to save a buck on the cheap stuff and then have to re-do, you just need to chalk it up as a life lesson and move on,...
//chopper

 

[Flame]

chalk it up as a life lesson and move on,...

I'd agree if I were buying $110 a roll china stuff, this is name brand material being used properly.

 

[chopper]

I understand, and by no means do I mean that you shouldn't go after arlon,
but in the process you should switch to a cast material and I think your problems will go away,
//chopper

 

[cdiesel]

User error.. you are operating out of manufacturer spec by not allowing the ink to dry sufficiently. Arlon's a good company to deal with, and will most likely just take care of you. If they happen to test samples and see evidence that there was not enough dry time, who knows...

 

[Flame]

User error.. you are operating out of manufacturer spec by not allowing the ink to dry sufficiently. Arlon's a good company to deal with, and will most likely just take care of you. If they happen to test samples and see evidence that there was not enough dry time, who knows...

Read again please, the 2 largest jobs that came back had dried for ATLEAST 24 hours. And my prints hang on some old vinyl racks. When we're slow, I print, laminate, cut. When we're busy, we will do ALL printing during one day and ALL laminating the next day.

This is not me whining about my poor jobs caming back and gosh durn, I have to fix them. By golly that really stinks!

No.

This is about me thoroughly examining jobs that are coming back with failed vinyl, and my conclusion as to why, and trying to alert others to be careful in their future material selection. And perhaps we can figure it out.

 

[cdiesel]

I'm not saying you're whining.. But, I do know that I don't remember the circumstances of every job we print throughout the year.

 

[Flame]

I'm not saying you're whining.. But, I do know that I don't remember the circumstances of every job we print throughout the year.

Well I remembered atleast a few enough to know the details on how it was done.

 

[gnatt66]

thanks for posting Flame...i'll stick to brand O.